The Missing Link in the ‘Time-Freedom’ + ‘Sales On Autopilot’ Business Models with Marissa Lawton

Jaclyn Mellone

Welcome to Go-To Gal episode number 192. As always, I’m your host, Jaclyn Mellone. And today’s guest is just one of my favorite ladies, one of my favorite people in the world. And also, I think she’s definitely my longest-time client. We’ve literally, our guest today joined my first ever membership program back in 2015. We’ve been pretty much working together in one capacity or another sense, pretty freaking cool. We do work together privately now. And that is something I don’t talk about a lot on the podcast. I’ll probably be talking about more, but I do work with clients privately. So if that’s something you’re interested in, oh, I don’t know. I’m not going to plug a link right now. But you can DM me on Instagram or you can always book just a one-time session at jaclynmellone.com/strategy. But as I’m talking about working with clients, I should probably share those things. Because if you’re listening, you know maybe you want that. 

Okay, so today’s guest, this is one of those conversations that Marissa and I’ve been having privately, and probably will continue to have privately. But we’re like, let’s have this on the podcast. And part of this is something that may be a bit down the road for some of you. So Marissa has been a multi six-figure, very successful business, working very few hours per week. She is going to break that all down for us. I think, one, just her sharing her story and some of the behind-the-scenes with that is I know is so valuable for you to hear.

The other side of it though, is the missing link, this alignment that is off, that there’s all of these, and this is a big thing that Marissa is leaning more into, and that inspired this but I wanted to give you context into this conversation of like, how does this tie into everything? It ties in because well, what we’re talking about today is essentially okay. So what does it look like to have one of these businesses with a lot of time freedom? What is it look like to work 10-15 hours a week, maybe 20 hours in a week, and have a multi six-figure business? What does that look like? Let’s talk about that. How did you get there? Let’s talk about that. 

But also, what’s a downside to that, which I know that they might be like,  what is the downside to that? And there’s this other side that nobody talks about. And that’s  Marissa and some things that she’s taking on recently, this has come up of, okay, so you create this time freedom. You have all this time. But what are you doing at that time? How is that time fulfilling you? How is that time bringing you more into alignment so you can keep growing your business? And that’s something that, maybe not everyone is there yet, but I think is a really important building block to think about as we are creating the businesses that we actually want to be growing. 

Probably you’ve noticed that we’re doing more and more mindset or just business design type of thing. But it’s like, this is so important because why? Why do this? Why be a go-to gal? Why build a business if it’s not going to fill your cup? There are so many easier ways to make money. It’s gotta be more than that. It really needs to also fulfill you in some way. But what we talk about is that the business can’t be the only thing fulfilling you. And how does that all look like? What do you do? And so we’re having that conversation. So we’re going to break down what Marissa’s business looks like? How she had grown it to that point? But also, what is this whole time freedom thing really look like? And how do we make sure that we are staying in alignment, not just with our business, but with our lives? How is that all fitting together?

Okay. I hope that I’m doing it good enough job of explaining this. But hopefully, you get where I’m going here. And we cover a lot. I feel like this is one of those things that was hard to wrap up in that perfect little nutshell headline. I don’t think this is something people are necessarily searching for, however, I know that this is a conversation that I’m having with Marissa. I’m having with other people too. I always know that if these are private conversations that I’m having that other people either are going to be interested in that content or you’re likely having those conversations too and trying to figure out, or maybe you haven’t figured out this as even one of the problems that you’re struggling with. 

So talking about things that aren’t talked about is something that I really want to use this platform for. I want you to feel the community of it that not everything is perfectly crafted like, the 10 tips to get more followers on Instagram. But sometimes it’s doing this other work and listening to the real conversations that spark in you or that help you put that puzzle piece together of, oh okay. That’s what’s really missing, or that’s what I really need to do or give you an extra little tip that you can work into your day, your week, or your month. Okay, I am done on my overly contextualizing this conversation. I’m really excited about it. First, let me formally introduce you to Marissa, and then we will dive in.

Marissa Lawton is a former Licensed Psychotherapist and current Champion for Intentional Living. After six years in the online space building an online education company and helping over a hundred students launch their own signature programs, Marissa has realized that most entrepreneurs aren’t walking their talk. They may have built their online businesses to create more time and lifestyle freedom, but often all they’ve done is simply trap themselves in another job. And she’s on a mission to change that. By helping online business owners slow down, step away from the sheds and cultivate more magical moments in their lives, Marissa aims to help them hone in on the legacy they actually want to leave in the world. All right, let’s get to it. Here is my conversation with Marissa. 

Marissa, I’m so excited to have you here today. 

Marissa Lawton

I have been dreaming of this for six years. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Seemed long overdue. But I trust that the timing is right on those for sure. So to kick us off before we talk about what’s going on now, take us back in time to when you were growing up. What were you the go-to gal for back then?

Marissa Lawton

So growing up, I was the go-to for a couple of things. I was always the person who people came to as the problem solver or the person who, what should I do? Like if they came to me for advice and insight, I remember vividly in elementary school which one should be my boyfriend? This one or this one? The check yes or no type of relationship. But even then, people are coming to me and asking, what would now be profound and deep questions? So I think they saw me as somebody who had my stuff together or whatever, which has always been a double-edged sword for me. Even until high school and college, I’ve always been the mom of the group. The responsible one, that designated driver. So while it’s been two roles in my life like, oh, she knows what to do. Let’s go ask her advice. But then also, let’s put her in this responsible person box because she’s not the fun one and she’s not the exciting one. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Well, I find that very hard to believe that you’re not the fun one. 

Marissa Lawton

With the right people, I am.

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. But I do see that insight that you have, that gut of just like, this is the answer to the problem. love that you were stepping into that at such a young age too. That you had a good idea of what those answers were. 

Marissa Lawton

I’ve always been very very self-aware I can tell you things that are going on with me and what it relates to, and whatever. That awareness piece has always been very high for me. I don’t know if people can sense that, that I’m self-aware so they think I’m going to be aware of them. But this is what led me down the path to becoming a licensed therapist in the beginning. I read this book Because I majored in finance and undergrad, so to this finance path, hard science, hard math. The finance degree, if anybody has one is basically a math degree like you’re doing calculations on what happens if with this stock, if this happens, and whatever. It’s math. And so from that, to go to mental health and become a therapist, was a very interesting transition. But I did some of this reflection in my twenties of like, what was I always known for? What was I always sought out for? And it was this advice piece. So that led me to my first pivot, which I know is something we’re going to talk a lot about today. My first pivot from finance to mental health, and then from mental health into coaching, into courses, into more scalable business models, and things like that. 

Jaclyn Mellone

So fascinating. Okay, so take us to the present then. Tell us what do you do and who do you help? 

Marissa Lawton

So I have an established brand whereas as a licensed therapist who has made the transition to online income, I help other clinicians do the same. Therapists work in a one-to-one capacity and they’re charging an hourly rate. The industry is really set up for that. it’s an established industry that you can’t really disrupt there. So what I teach people to do is use their clinical skills in new ways through coaching courses or other online programs.

So that’s my established brand. But I am launching a new brand I’m starting earlier. It really was born out of the pandemic, which I think a lot of listeners can relate to. This shift or this calling change when you’re faced with. Sitting at home all the time, and what do I really want to do? There are a lot of existential crises happening. So my new brand focuses on the lifestyle angle of all of this. So you’ve built this online business. A lot of times to have some time freedom, some financial freedom, and some location freedom. We get to the point of having that freedom and then we don’t know what to do with it. We don’t know how to embody that freedom. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I just love talking with you about these topics. I’m like, yes, let’s have this conversation at large. Even if someone’s listening and they’re not at that point yet, thinking about these things as we’re building our business, I think is really important because it’s like, why are we doing this? What is the purpose of all of this? And even if you can’t totally maybe embody some of those things that you want to getting clear on that is really going to help guide you with the type of business that you’re building, or those next steps. As opportunities come, I think being clear on that does tend to pull you in that direction. That’s going to be best for you. So, okay, we’ve known each other for a long time. Seeing you grow to these totally different business models. 

Marissa Lawton

I had a product business in there for six months. 

Jaclyn Mellone 

I have one of your blankets. It wasn’t just products, you were doing handmade. That’s a whole next level of product. So without going through a whole resume, so to speak, I do think it’s interesting, especially through the context of this whole like, what is this all for? And really creating this new dimension of balance in our lives, how has that been a key of like, what, how do some of these different business models look like for you? And I know you have two small kids. You were pregnant during part of this. How has that played a role? Was there a point where you felt totally out of alignment? Take us through some of that. 

Marissa Lawton

So I did not follow Simon Sinek’s advice, and I did not start with why. Which is what trying to talk about here is maybe doing a bit more of that like, what’s the purpose behind this?  working with you back in Chasing Dreams and Littles, I’ve heard you tell this story a lot of times. It’s like, you are working with moms who are just trying to make grocery money or working with moms who are like, I just want a thousand dollars. That honestly was me because…

Jaclyn Mellone

We’ve never talked about like, I’ve never directly been like, what’s that you then? But I know that you could look around the room, so to speak, in that group and see that. But that’s so interesting to hear you say that was you then too. 

Marissa Lawton

Yes, because I’d come from this high-powered finance corporate career, married an active-duty soldier, got moved to the middle of nowhere Alaska, and that’s where I had that quarter-life crisis. financial institutions in Alaska. There’s one credit union in this town. So I was almost forced into looking for new opportunities. But during that process is when I started thinking about what is it that I really want to do and made the transition to mental health. Then I got pregnant, I started being a stay-at-home mom and bored out of my mind. I just wanted something that was my own.  And it’s so interesting how this, you’re going to laugh because you and I know each other so well, but it’s so interesting because money wasn’t the first reason for me. It was just to have something to do that didn’t involve breastfeeding or changing diapers or whatever.

So it was cool, a couple hundred bucks a month would be cool. Awesome, if that’s the benefit. But I just want to have a purpose again beyond just being a mom. And then something just flipped in me because I started to make a little bit of revenue. The funny part is revenue for the last six years has been my number one goal. I’m just now getting to the point where I’m stepping beyond money being my main motivator. Witnessing this transformation in myself, and then also working with these students who are building their online businesses for lifestyle is what really during the pandemic got me to start thinking about this transition. So it’s all been me. It happened to me and then I’ve been able to witness it in other people. 

So started coaching because it was the natural transition from therapy. I was like, oh, this is the easiest. It makes sense. It’s basically the same thing I’ve always done. And then had the same issue of being one-on-one and hitting an income ceiling with that. And then I got pregnant with my second, as you mentioned, and had HG. Just was so sick, I couldn’t even show up to coaching calls. So that’s when I started knitting blankets because it was something I could do from my bed. Just sold those over at Christmas season and basically paid for all of our holiday gifts and everything. Every time I got money in, it was like, okay, now we can go buy this person a Christmas present. And then someone else bought a blanket and was like, okay, let me go buy this Christmas present.

But I guess you could say I caught the bug and wanted higher revenue potential. So once Logan was born, I started thinking, okay, let me get strategic about this. Who can I serve? Where’s the gap in the market? I recognized a lot of therapists were having the same problems that I had and I was like, well, I can easily help them do this. And I so moved into a more course-based business. I still was doing one-on-one in the beginning, just cause I was taking whatever I could get. I remember that we were working together and I made the decision to phase out one-on-one. I was like, can I really do this? This is 60% of my revenue. And within a year, every year since I started working with therapists, which is the last four years or so, I’ve grown more than a hundred percent each year. I’ve more than doubled my revenue each year. 

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s so incredible. And that one-on-one at that point was a lot of done for you. You’re doing websites and copy and all of that, and to pivot to the course model. And now you’ve had your signature offer for a number of years. So tell us what that looks like, and also in the context of how many hours you’re working. Now, what does that look like in your world? 

Marissa Lawton

So my signature offer is called Side Hustle Support Group because I wanted to speak to therapists and clinicians. So what I teach them to do is move into the online space. Some of them are choosing to coach, but what I really want to help them do is move to one-to-many since they’re already doing one-to-one. Let’s talk about a one-to-many model. Most of my students choose group programs because it still gives them that level of intimacy that the clinicians have trouble going from in-depth one-on-one to just completely passive. So a group program gives them a stepping stone in the middle. 

I started as a six-month program where it was just me. I did everything myself. So people would build a sales funnel, build their first opt-in, and then we usually have it go straight to a waitlist in their case because they’re building a holding space to launch this group program. During the six months, we would focus on filling that funnel. So exploring different marketing opportunities and getting people to get the opt-in to and then get on the waitlist, was our number one goal. 

I would do copy reviews, design reviews for all of these students. And I started with 9, went to 13, 21 and then 28, and then 28 again. And then another thing that you helped me with was like when I had 21 students I was like, I can’t do this anymore. And you helped me hire. I was hired very quickly, and I feel like one decision was great and one decision was terrible.

Jaclyn Mellone

But it was been there. But you did it!

Marissa Lawton

I had to do. And you know this about me, I’m a quick start when I feel like the decision is right when I feel like it makes sense for me, and when I get that intuitive hit about it like, yes, this is the right step. I can make it happen overnight. So those are the things that you often reflect on for me. I think you need to hire somebody and I’m like, okay, fine.

So I hired a copywriter and a designer to come into the program, and they took over all of those reviews for me. That was basically the after-hours work. So the program is now nine months, which felt very counterintuitive when we see a lot of people selling faster and quicker results to go for a longer program asking people to commit to longer. But it was the best decision I made. And so the last three months, we now added on launching. So people build their funnel, fill their funnel, get some people on their waitlist, and have their first launch. 

Now, having the team that takes over the copy and stuff. So now I work Wednesdays. I have office hours with them, which is a two-hour call. And then Fridays, I have two calls because we split the group into two smaller pieces on Fridays. So I spend about three hours on Friday with them. So five hours for a week, and then there’s a boxer in between. So I would say some weeks, depending on what their assignments are, it can be up to 10 or 15 hours. But other weeks when it’s a quieter week, it might just be that five hours. 

Jaclyn Mellone

So how many hours total do you think you’re working in a week? So that’s supporting that program and students are clients really because of your level of support for them. You have a podcast, you write for different publications. Looking at a whole week, how many hours do you think you work?

Marissa Lawton

Yes, so that was another hire that I made. I made the two hires within the program and then I made a hire, basically, a marketing agency that I sit down and I batch record my podcast one week out of the month. And then they schedule, do all the social, do all the copywriting, do all the graphics and things like that. And that was stuff I was doing all myself up until the middle of last year. So one week of the month, I would say on top of the I’m with the students. One week a month is a heavier week because I outlined four podcasts that take me, I usually set aside four hours for that. And then I’m recording those four podcasts, so that’s another four hours to do the recording. 

So that week is closer to a 20-hour week, but then I don’t do anything the other three weeks. I do have another course that is much lighter in support than my signature program, and we meet monthly for one monthly call. That’s an hour and a half. So the most I worked during a week is 20 hours. Which some people might be like, okay, I’m working 20 hours a week but my business looks nothing like that. Or maybe they’re working 20 hours a week in addition to a full-time job, or some others might be listening and saying like, I’m working 40, 50, 60 hours a week, how could I get to that 20? So I appreciate you breaking that down for us because it is also, I think some people talk about scalable programs and this and that. But it’s really interesting to hear, okay, you’re in there supporting those students 10 hours a week which totally explains the success of that program in those students. But that’s also a really realistic number to say, okay yes, 28 students in a program like that. It’s not just a 1-hour call on the calendar. You’re putting some time to support them in different ways. 

Right, and then I think it’s worth it to mention that the shift to a 9-month program because you and I talked about this in length. And I really felt it was the right move for me. Now going through, we’re finishing up the first round that we’ll finish at the end of October of these nine months. It’s round five of the program, but it’s the first round of nine months. It was the best decision ever. The students went because with six months, I felt like I got them three feet from the finish line. And I was like, okay bye, now you have to launch on your own. These weren’t people who had online business experience. They were brand new. They’d never launched before. They barely even knew what a launch meant. 

So it just didn’t feel right from an integrity standpoint but also from A business model standpoint. I now have the entire month of November off, the entire month of December off, and the entire month of January off. Whereas when it was six months, I got two weeks in June and two weeks in December where I wasn’t doing calls, but I’m still launching during that time. I was still doing sales calls and all that stuff to enroll people. So I never had any kind of break whatsoever when it was a 6-month program. And I think that’s something to think about is like, if you have a shorter course or a shorter program but you’re launching every quarter between pre-launch and a webinar or whatever and then the cart open, you’re actually not ever getting a break. 

So is it worth it to launch every quarter, or should you maybe just launch three times a year and adjust your price to cover that quarter that you would have missed a launch? There’s a lot to do, not only with the hours you spend with a week but the timing of your program to create space and spaciousness.

Jaclyn Mellone

Absolutely. You break this down, I think of a couple of things. One, that intentionality. Well, one too, I think it’s important to know that if you would have started at this nine months, it would’ve been overwhelming for you. Your program is so comprehensive. You’ve built that up over the years. And so, it just reinforces that like, okay, start here, but know that you can make these changes down the road. You can raise the price. You can change the format. You can hire help. You can make it longer, add things on. You’re going to listen to that feedback and see. Those early students, they’re some of your biggest advocates too. They had so much success even in that 6-month program. 

Do you want to say something and then I’m like, I just want to underline that because sometimes we hear people on podcasts or we hear the leaders of the industry and they described what they have now and we try to model that from the get-go, and it can be overwhelming or just discourage us from even doing it?  

Marissa Lawton

Yes, I know the word balance, it’s controversial. Some people like that word, some people don’t. But maybe we could talk about it in terms of dance. There is a dance between the intention and the action, the reflection and the action. I do, for my students and for everybody like, I want you to think about what you want from your business and start thinking about these other areas. Because there are actually eight areas, eight dimensions of wellness, and financial and occupational are only two of them. There’s a whole other, there are more areas of wellness to think about. I do want us to reflect on that, but if we get stuck in reflection, we never take action. So there’s a dance that has to happen. I tell people when it’s 80%, you got to go. You got to jump and then figure it out. And then you’re going to make pivots and make adjustments based on what you found. But you have to have findings to evaluate. You have to have data to evaluate, and then you can make shifts You need both. We don’t want to be too stuck in action with no reflection and we don’t want to only be reflecting and not acting.

Jaclyn Mellone

Such great points there. Okay, so interesting. Ironic that those two years, it was exactly the same amount of enrollment. Now, for those listening that don’t realize this, with your increase of the comprehensiveness of the program that adding those three additional months, there was also a significant increase in the investment for the program. So even though the amount of students enrolled was the same, the amount of revenue from the program was significantly higher. And this year, she is coming up on launching again and already has 38 people on the waitlist. It’s so freaking cool to see how you’ve grown this year after year. 

Okay, so your decision to have this be nine months and not because listen, you could totally, and we’ve talked about it. If you were launching, you had overlapping programs running or if it was still six months and you were launching twice a year, there’s so many different ways or evergreen that you could be potentially making more money with this offer. But you’ve structured it in a way that it is scalable in the nine months and gives you three months off on your calendar, which is a significant amount of time. So what do you do in those three months? What does that look like? I do not have three months off in my business. 

But for me, we actually have one, and I don’t even know if you know this or if we’ve talked about this Marissa, we have one week a month that I don’t do calls. One week a month, and that’s not to say that I’m taking a vacation every month. Although with kids, it feels like that a lot of the time. Over the summer, we did a week of vacation in July, and two weeks in August. But when I look at the school, it’s like the first week of this school year, there were no calls. Then October, we’ll have a week with no calls. But the rest it’s like, Thanksgiving and Christmas, we have two weeks off again. And then in February, they’re off for a week. April they’re off for a week. So that we have these built-in weeks that I have to take off.

But we just make it okay. Once a month we block it off and there are no calls, and that gives me that space for reflection or to have time with the family or whatever that looks like. Three months is really fascinating to me. And I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s like, what do you do over the weekends? And I have an idea of what you do over three months. But I want our listeners to hear. Just even think about what that process is or what their goals could be with that. 

Marissa Lawton

I think that’s the thing is we go through this process as we’re building our business to scale, to automate for this time freedom and this financial freedom, this location freedom that online business gives us. But we don’t know what to do with that freedom. So I’m guilty of both of these things and watching this in several rounds of students. They’re also guilty of this. We either do work that doesn’t need to be done like, if I post three more times on Instagram, it’s going to do something for me when it really doesn’t. So we end up overworking because we don’t have any other alternatives or we just end up mindlessly scrolling mindlessly, Netflixing and we think we’re relaxing, but we’re not. And that’s where I was mentioning those other eight dimensions of wellness. 

So the eight dimensions are financial and occupational, and then there’s also: social, emotional, spiritual, intellectual, physical, and environmental. Often as business owners and business builders, we are very highly focused on those other two areas, the financial and the occupational, and that’s really like where we zone in. There’s a mental health reason for this. We have levels of needs. And we have what’s called basic needs which are food, shelter, safety, clothing is our basic needs. We’re pre-wired to meet those needs first. Then we have intermediate needs which are love, social, friendships, and family. And then we have higher-level needs which are called in mental health terms, self-actualization. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Is this Maslow? I’m so glad you’re breaking this down because when you said that I’m like, okay, are these all equal? Okay, so this is similar to that. And then the different levels of what we need first before we could really…

Marissa Lawton

Right. And so that top one is we call it self-actualization, which is #liveyourbestlife. But you can’t live your best life unless these basic needs are taken care of. And so it’s natural and it’s the normal human response to over-focus on financial and occupational because that’s how we take care of those basic needs. But once our businesses are established, and that level of the establishment can look different for everybody. It could be a five-figure business, it could be a six-figure business, it can be whatever works for you.  Then we need to start making the shift into the middle needs and then those higher needs. So social, emotional, spiritual, intellectual. A spiritual intellectual is up here. Social and emotional is in the middle. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I have a question for you which I don’t expect you to have a pre-crafted answer for this, but I’m curious if this is something you’ve thought about or where this plays end. So one, wherein this hierarchy is the financial and occupational again? Is that at the bottom with our needs?

Marissa Lawton

Everybody’s going to be a little bit different. As for me, when I started my business with my husband who is an active-duty soldier, our financial needs were taken care of. But then my husband retires in just a couple of years, and I set a goal for us to be mortgage-free by the time we retired. And so that all of a sudden became a financial goal that I associated with which was okay, we have to have this house, we have to have the safety, the structure, somewhere to go when we retired from the army. So some people, if you’re single or if you’re the breadwinner, your business is probably going to meet those lower base level needs: safety, structure, food, shelter, paying your bills. 

And then as we start to earn more, sometimes our business fills our social needs, cause we have our biz besties or let’s build our emotional needs.  Something you pointed out to me a while ago was like, I was making my students my friends Because I didn’t have any. I built my entire life around my business. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I don’t think I said those exact words, but yes.

Marissa Lawton

There are so many of us that do this. We use our business to try and fill not only the financial and the occupational, but oh, let me go to this conference. It’s my social need. Let me go to this place and meet, like join this mastermind to meet friends because that’s my emotional need or my friendship need. And so your original question was where do we spend our time? And what I would say is, before we decide where and what to do with our time to look at these other areas of wellness and see what might be depleted, what might be lacking. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. Well, and as you’re describing it, what I’m thinking of is, okay so what I’ve realized with myself and with clients is, okay, we hit a certain level of financial stability. And then it’s almost we need that whether it’s spiritual or social, or we need our cups filled in other ways in order to get to that next level of financial stability. And so it’s, not like we stay at each tier until it’s complete, you know. I almost feel like there’s a baseline that we’ve moved through and this is very anecdotal. I was curious. You’re like, where we, I don’t know if it’s all of them. But some of them, over and over again, and then loopback. It’s alert because it is like you were saying that our financial needs might change as we have different financial goals, and our social needs might change over time.

Sometimes we really need those business relationships because we need people to understand that language. And other times we really need maybe relationships that are not going to talk about business at all. And then that balance… 

Marissa Lawton

There’s a whole nother can of worms here to open up about peer pressure and social construction and all of that kind of stuff, because when you’re living in a one-bedroom apartment and then your business is making mid-sixes, you’re totally financially secure. But are you feeling like, oh, I make mid-sixes, now I need the five-bedroom house and the whatever and the whatever? Then, of course, you’re going back into your basic needs because your rent went from $800 a month to a mortgage of $3,000. So what else we need to think about is when is enough enough for us? Do I need to actually, we talked about this before hitting record, do I need a seven-figure business? Or is $226,000 a year just fine? 

So what are financial and occupational needs? Yes, I do believe they circle back if we’re always going to be elevating that. If we’re always going to be upgrading so to speak. But we can eventually decide three-bedroom, two-bathroom. That’s perfect. Two thousand square feet, I don’t need a mansion. Can I afford a mansion? Probably. But do I need it? No. What would I do with my time, effort, and energy if I wasn’t now striving like if I didn’t circle back to needing to meet my basic needs again? 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. And even just knowing, too, of what, I think is what you’re getting here of like, what’s important for us to even spend that money on? Even if it’s the same amount of money. What is going to bring us joy or give us fulfillment? Somewhat very innocently asked me like, oh what car are you driving now? And I’m like, I still have my 2012 Rogue. got leather seats. It’s nice, but it’s a nine-year-old car. I think I did that math. Yes, nine-year girls, nine-year-old car. But where do I drive? I’m like the little old lady that puts on 5,000 miles a year here. I wasn’t even going to the grocery store anymore. I was insta-carting. So it’s really like, of course, I’ll eventually get a new car. But on my list of things, the car is great for me still right now.

So feeling that peer pressure of like, oh, I should be pulling up with it. No, that doesn’t matter to me. But some people that might be, and that’s not everyone. It’s going to be different. So it’s figuring out what is important to us? So how do we do that? Do you have any go-to exercises or things that you do to get clarity on those things?

Marissa Lawton

I think you can go hop on Google and go to Google images and download a wellness wheel. Some of them will be basic where they’re just labeled with these eight dimensions or these eight categories. Others are more filled out. So within financial, what are the things within that, within occupational. But even printing that off and taking a marker and being like, okay, I think of it as a pie chart. This one, 100% percent. This one, 0% or whatever. And maybe just doing that visual, we’ll start to see like, what am I neglecting? Because then we can all say like, oh yes, I’m neglecting my physical. Or maybe you’re going to the gym and you’re treating your physical or walking around your neighborhood or whatever and you’re pouring in there a little bit. But then what’s your environment like? You work from home. How’s your desk? We were talking about our desks before we get recorded. Mine’s trash. I don’t even know what’s on there. Kids’ toys, old papers, and all that stuff. 

So how’s your environmental wellness? What’s the clutter like around your house? Going back to the idea of balance, if we think about there are eight parts of this wheel. It’s not like each one has twelve and a half percent. It’s not like you can be equal across all of them. There are going to be some that are 50% or whatever. But we can then say, oh, this one’s been neglected for a while. I haven’t seen my non-business friends. I haven’t met anybody off of zoom. Of course, we’re in a pandemic, I get that. But I haven’t gone to lunch with somebody who’s not a business friend in a year. Maybe I should pour into those relationships or maybe I should evaluate something like that.

Jaclyn Mellone

And that’s been something I barely been doing because I realized with the pandemic just as such an extrovert that that social cup was so empty which it had to be. There are some safe ways to do it, and also we’re at a point now where I’m fortunate enough where I live. Not to brag, but we’re over 90% vaccinated. That’s the humble brag of 2021. How vaccinated is your town? But it’s okay, we can be doing some of these things. The weather’s still nice, they could be outside, or what does that look like? Because my mental health really depended on it, of prioritizing relationships with family, with friends, and all of that stuff that I felt so depleted at the end of really in the spring. I think is when it hit me of like, I’m coming up for air. But yes, it’s been a long time of not having that social cup filled. 

Marissa Lawton

A lot of times we’re just told or we believe. I don’t think we’re even being necessarily told of this anymore. I do believe the messaging has changed, but we still have an ingrained belief of push through, push through. And so we ignore these areas. But like I said, even some people just having a visual of like, these are the dimensions of wellness and I haven’t done anything in this dimension at all. I’ve been just pushing through and thinking either A, it’s going to get better on its own, or B, oh I don’t need that.

Some people like, oh I don’t need social interactions. I have my family. Or I don’t need this, I do this or whatever. And then also saying, oh my business gives me that when it doesn’t have to be the answer to everything. So that’s what I would just encourage people to do is just take a look at these different categories. You can set it up. We have CEO days. A lot of times, again, that’s like peer pressure in the business world. Are you doing your CEO day once a quarter? And I love those. I think they’re important. I think that it’s great to be intentional about your business. But are you doing a wellness day as well?

If you can schedule a CEO day, you can schedule a wellness day where you sit down with this wellness wheel. Just like you’re planning out your podcast for the next quarter, or you’re planning out your next launch or you’re planning out your next promotion, plan out your next wellness endeavor.

Jaclyn Mellone

Okay, oh my gosh. I have something else I want to say, but I want to come back to it because I love this idea of a wellness day. So with the wellness day, we’re sitting down with that wheel. Checking in with where we are with everything and then, I don’t know. So what does that look like for you in terms of planning out maybe your wellness? Do you have wellness goals or is it just activities?

Marissa Lawton

Yes, I don’t do this. I’m making it up off the top of my head. 

Jaclyn Mellone

But you’re onto something here so let’s brainstorm what this looks like. 

Marissa Lawton

I can imagine like, just like with a CEO day, you sit down and you’re like, okay, what’s my revenue goal for the quarter? With your best month ever, how are some different ways that I can generate, hit that goal? Is it going to be one big launch? Is it going to be a couple of different things? So I imagine like, let’s say, we sit down with the wellness wheel and we’re like, man, I’m not feeling very socially fulfilled right now. You could say, all right, I’m going to text three friends now. And you could say, okay, I’m going to check in here. Or spiritually, I’m not feeling very spiritually fulfilled. You could say, all right, for the next five days, I’m going to get a scheduled meditation or something like that. 

Everybody’s going to have their own approach, whether they need it more structured or whether they need it less structured. But I think setting aside an intentional day to look at this and then taking those reflections and acting on them. We were talking about it a little bit earlier. It’s not just one or the other. Think about it and then actually do it. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I love that. I always think of Danielle LaPorte’s like, how do you want to feel too? And it’s like, okay, we want more fun or whatnot. There was a point, oh I don’t know, maybe early June where we were trying to make plans with someone. And I was looking at our summer calendar and it was a great calendar. There wasn’t anything that I was dreading like we had a lot going on. But almost over weeks were filled up. And what I said to my husband is there’s nothing on this calendar that I don’t want to do or that I’m resentful of, but we haven’t made any of these plans.

These are just all things that may be, we were invited to where we committed to or obligations or whatever that is. But we hadn’t intentionally put anything on that calendar of, oh we want to do this. Let’s put it on. It was just things that happened if you will. And I’m like, okay, let’s think about that. What do we want to do? What do we want to add in? Because if we don’t, we can just live in the reaction of like, okay, these are all the things that we were invited to do and go. We’d probably have fun, but we’d be missing out on that other piece of like, what are the experiences that we want to be intentionally creating? I think that happens a lot with calendars. We’re just reactive. 

Marissa Lawton

It’s called discernment. So when you’re being discerning, when you are evaluating a choice and taking that choice in and saying, is this choice actually what I want to do? Or do I feel pressured to do it? So spending the effort, the time, the energy to discern a choice and not just make it in a reactionary way.

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. So something that my therapist pointed out to me that didn’t really make sense to me at the time, and I’m still probably making sense of it but I’ve gotten a little bit more clarity on. As she said to me, she’s like, you have a really high tolerance. I was like, what does that mean? And so I wanted to share this because I bet there are people listening that may have a wall up right now. And they’d be like, I’m fine. I’m working through it. Maybe you are right now. Maybe you have that high tolerance like I do, but we can only have that for so long. And we don’t have to have, we don’t have to live like that either. I think this idea of being really intentional, having that discernment of really looking at this wheel and being proactive, and maybe you’re okay. Maybe it’s good enough. Those things are like, you know what, I can make it work. Great. I’m so glad you can. But how can you make it better? How can you feel better? Like, get that extra step because, for me, it was like the pandemic. I feel like I had this adrenaline of like, okay. And then like Glennon Doyle in my head, like we can do hard things. But eventually, that adrenaline is going to, or already did wear off. So how are we being intentional about creating lives that really do make us feel good and feel supported? Why are we doing all these? 

Marissa Lawton

What’s the point? What I really am trying to do, I’m getting so into for myself, and then with this new brand that I’m launching is, what’s the legacy that you’re leaving? A lot of us think of legacy in terms of generational wealth and that kind of thing. But there’s also an emotional legacy. Think about it like, this is a little morbid, but when you’re gone, sure you might pass down the wealth that you made from your business. But what’s the emotional legacy that your family, your children, the people who remember you, how are they going to remember you emotionally? What’s the spiritual legacy you’re leaving? What are these other areas of wellness? If you were to leave an impression on people, what is that impression? Is it, oh they worked all the time? Or are there other things?

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. No, it really gives you pause to think about that. It’s one of those things that’s really easy to be like, I don’t have to worry about that now and to push off. But I think when we do think about it now, it gives us that long-term perspective. But also, we’re creating the lives we really want to create. It’s not just about when we’re gone either. It’s about what are we doing while we’re here? 

Marissa Lawton

All right. I think it does bring us into the present moment, because if this is what I want, what am I doing now to contribute to that? Because what I’m doing now is contributing to the opposite, potentially. 

Jaclyn Mellone

For sure. For sure. I don’t know. It’s so easy sometimes to procrastinate on those things. We’re like, once I do this or once I have this, or once I’m a millionaire then I’ll be philanthropic. How could you donate in a small way now? And so, embodying those maybe bigger goals of how can you step into the now which I think helps put us on that path. But it also doesn’t feel like something that’s separate from us either. It brings us really into the present of how can we do that. 

Marissa Lawton 

For sure. I do think that we’ve got this complex about things have to be grand gestures or the idea of like, when I make a million dollars, I’ll donate $10,000 to my favorite charity or whatever. But I think the smaller increments, the smaller daily practices, the smaller daily habits are more profound than waiting until it can be a grand gesture. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. Okay, I want to switch gears a little bit because we talked about creating this space in our schedule. For you, having those three months where you’re not running a program actively, you’re not launching all of that. And we talked about like, okay, what do you do with those three months? Or what does that look like? And I think this getting clear on this wellness wheel and where we are with everything can certainly help figure out how to fill that. 

But I also want to look at the opposite of like, okay, during those times, do you ever feel that pull of like, oh I should be working on this thing or I could be doing this? And sometimes, maybe, when we’re not clear what we’re spending that time on it. It’s so easy. It’s so easy for businesses to feel like the work is never done. There’s always something else. We get creative ideas so we feel like, oh, we’re inspired. We want to do this thing. How do you have boundaries with that?

Marissa Lawton

Yes. And creativity, like wanting to make something is a totally different area. I really feel like it should be its own part of the wellness wheel because when you’re creative, it means that you are fully present. That you want to sit down and knit, or you want to sit down and draw, or you want to sit down and make something. That creative urge is actually the opposite of our business. A lot of us are creative entrepreneurs, so we’ve blended that. But I would encourage people to separate that out like getting a hobby. For those of us who are serial entrepreneurs, it’s hard for us to imagine a hobby. And then if we do, the first thing we think about is, how can I monetize this? Could I launch this? Could I solve this? So being able to have separation there. I think boundaries in places are a good way to look at it, but also just thinking about why do I feel like I need to be fulfilled from my business? Or even if I’m getting into a new endeavor and then I automatically start thinking business, why? Getting clear on that awareness piece, and what do I need to fill from something else? So maybe I need to just sit and relax. A lot of us, our version of relaxing is scrolling or our version of relaxing is bingeing a show. But I would encourage everybody, even if it’s just literally set a timer for a minute and just sit and don’t do anything.

Transitioning from a doer to a be-er. Can you be: can you be still, can you just be without some sort of media in your face, some sort of thing in your hands to fidget with? What could that look like for you if you could just be? And some of us, it’s easier said than others and for some of us, it’s going to be a much shorter timeframe. But that’s a practice that I would encourage everybody to start even if it’s setting a timer for one minute. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I love that small goal of starting with one minute. And what you’re making me think about is, sometimes some people are just like their businesses are their business. But sometimes, business takes up or we almost want it to or expect it to fill up all these needs for us.

Marissa Lawton

If you think the same thing about our partners… 

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s what I was thinking. If you personify the business like I was thinking of meditating as the example, and during my time off, especially the summer when I took a lot of time off, I was meditating a lot. And what I realized is that in my working week, I was meditating. But it was almost with the purpose of, oh, I need to clear my head so I can write something or can do something. And so, getting more into that practice of just to feel my best during my week off and having it not have a purpose attached to it other than just feeling my best really felt good.

I think there’s probably a lot of things that we do for the business and inadvertently. So looking at that and yes, if you think of it as a relationship then it starts to sound a little twisted like, oh, why do you do that? So I think that might help us to see where those things might be.

Marissa Lawton

Right. Our generation, especially, I do believe it’s changing with Gen Z. We’re trying to help our kids do differently. But our generation has been so cut-off from our emotions. Rub some dirt in it, don’t cry, get up, all of that stuff. And so, to sit and feel something uncomfortable, the last thing that we want to do.

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. As Enneagram 7, that’s literally the last thing I want to do. And I had to get a feelings wheel to be like, this is what I’m feeling and figure it out on the wheel. But you’re right. It’s been a tool that I don’t tuck away in a drawer. It’s a magnet on our fridge, and I want my kids using it too. It’s created a lot of conversation of what they’re feeling into like, let’s name the feeling and find it on the wheel. And I do hope that this next generation isn’t as resistant to that or shoving it down maybe as our generation is. 

Marissa Lawton

Right. I think for entrepreneurs, our distraction or our drug, if we even want to say that, is our business. For other people, it might be Netflix or it might be their phone, or it might be literal alcohol or drugs. But it can be a form of escapism from some of these feelings. Especially because we have a lot of agency or control over our businesses like, okay, I do this, I make money, or I do this and this is the output. I post a reel and my audience grows by 50 people or whatever. There’s an easy correlation in our business whereas the real world doesn’t always give us that direct correlation or that quick response that our business might. 

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s so true. So it may not be as big of a motivator. And also, things with meditation it’s like, I found it through business and my personal development journey there. So they’re so closely tied, but they don’t have to be. And so that happened as a default. 

Marissa Lawton

I’m not an anti-entrepreneurship at all. This is what I do. I teach people to build businesses and now, I’m teaching people to build the lifestyle once they have the business. So I never want to take us away from that. But I also want us to just be aware of that, that it can be all-consuming sometimes. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Absolutely. Well, and that’s what burns people out. So getting clear on this of, okay, we can build businesses. We can build businesses that support the lifestyles that we want, which I know is totally a go-to strategy. But I don’t think a lot of people are actually embodying. And that’s what we’re talking about, the nitty-gritty of it. Okay, I could jam on this with you currently all today but we’re running out of time. So before we wrap up, anything else you want to say about this? 

Marissa Lawton

I just think it’s about pairing intention with action. They both have to be there. We can’t jump without the intention because then we just make a mess. But we can’t get stuck in just thinking about it. We’ve got to find that dance between the two. 

Jaclyn Mellone

So good. Okay, how can we stay in touch with you? 

Marissa Lawton

Yes, so I have a brand new baby Instagram. Don’t judge me. It’s super tiny. But it’s just my name, marissalawton_ , and this is where I’m starting to talk about the lifestyle side of business. The link in that bio is also a link to an audit, a lifestyle audit where we start from the inside out. We take a look at what are the values that you want to embody. We go through these non-negotiables. We talk about obligations. And then we help you craft your ideal day based on values first, so the internal stuff. If you want to go straight to that link, it’s just marissalawton.com/values, or you can find it at Instagram. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Alright. Amazing. Well, thank you so so much. You got my wheels turning and just thinking about things. Hopefully, I know our listeners are really thinking about being more intentional in their life and business as well.

Marissa Lawton

 Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Jaclyn Mellone

Well, that’s a wrap. How amazing is Marissa? And hopefully, you’re as inspired by that conversation as I am. Now, if you are looking for some more support in your business, maybe you’re thinking about making some big shifts or maybe you’ve hit a plateau, you’re in a funk, or maybe you’re just looking for strategic guidance. You’re like, what should my next big thing be? Or you’re planning a launch and you want some extra eyes on it, or maybe you really feel like your mindset is getting in your way that inner villain voices popping up and you’re ready to conquer it. Whatever it is, if you’re looking to bust through those blocks and/or looking for that strategic guidance and how to grow and scale your business, I would love to support you with that. 

Now, as I mentioned, or you’re probably inferred from this conversation with Marissa since we’ve been working together for a long time, I do work with private clients in longer-term packages. That said, the way we typically started off is by doing a one-hour power hour. And what this does is it gives us, instead of a sales call where I don’t know. What’s the point of sales calls? I’m so anti-sales call.  Instead of a sales call, we actually get to spend an hour working on your business. This is not a sales call, this is a strategy session or a mindset support session where we’re able to really dig into what’s going on with you and your business, and how I can support you in working through those mindset blocks or mapping out those next strategic steps.

And so for some people that that one power hour is exactly what you need to get to the next place in your business. For other people, it gives you that actual experience of us working together to then say, oh okay, let’s continue working together. So this is something I don’t always offer, but we do have available right now. So if this is something you do want support with, if you’re like, I have the courses but I actually need another human to help guide me through this or figure out what I’m missing, or just get me out of my own way, I would love to be that person for you. 

Go to jaclynmellone.com/strategy to book your power hour. Alright, that is officially it for today. As always, I’m cheering you on.

Can I just say, thank you so much for listening. I don’t think I’m saying it enough, but I love that you are here. If you enjoyed today’s episode, or if you’ve been getting value from this podcast, can you do me a quick favor. Head on over to iTunes and leave a rating and review. When you leave a rating and review, it basically tells iTunes that they need to spread the word and tell more people about this podcast, and I am on a mission to get the word out. I’m so grateful for your support. We want to make sure to shout you out too. So if you do leave a rating and review, keep your eyes and ears open. We will be either shouting out in the podcast or on Instagram Stories.