How to Pitch Podcasts + Land Media

Jaclyn Mellone  

Welcome to Go To Gal episode number 164. As always, I’m your host Jaclyn Mellone, but today’s episode is a little bit different. Actually today’s episode was an IG live. IGTV, an IG live. Basically, I went live on Instagram with my friend Phil and I had no idea what to expect, but we ended up covering so much. We dove into podcasting and podcast guessing, and media and tools and tips and stories, and all the things. I think we went for about an hour which is a pretty big ask for an IG live. Now, in this conversation we do talk about the podcast guest Plug-N-Pitch System which is always available, and is only $27. The pitch templates, the scripts, the training, the tracking system and that bonus: that invisible pitch method that we talked about in this conversation is all available in the Plug-N-Pitch System which is evergreen. If you go to plugnpitch.com you can grab that. So I asked Phil if it was okay if I shared it here, and he agreed. Yay. So here you go.  Now you can take a walk with us and listen to this really fun, really informative conversation about the podcasting platform, guesting media, all of those things. I can’t wait for you to check it out. So here it is. 

It might not be the best, but I think it’s pretty good quality audio, so we listened back to it. But if it sounds different than the normal audio, just know this was on my propods and not on a microphone, and not a typical podcast setup but sometimes you got to break your own rules, and I figured this content was too good not to share. So hopefully your ears, forgive me for it. All right, here is my conversation with Phil.  Phil is a branding expert, a personal branding expert. He designs and builds brands for experts and companies in probably just about every industry imaginable. One of his most notable and long standing clients is Lori Greiner from Shark Tank, but he also works with people like you and me, and creates these beautiful brands. It’s really interesting that he serves the expert space and specifically with branding personal brands. So there’s a lot of synergy between our businesses, and I’m definitely going to have Phil back. Well, spoiler alert, we talk about it at the end. And I’m definitely going to have him back on as a guest, so we can dive into his expertise and give you some actionable advice on that too. But today’s conversation is focused on podcasting, podcast guesting and the media. All right, let’s do it.

Phil Pallen  

Instagram, happy friday. I hope you’re having a great start to your day. If you’re catching this using the replay, Welcome. Oh boy, did you pick a good one to tune into? We’re talking podcasting today but not fluffy podcasting discussion. Today, I’m going to be joined by my friend Jaclyn who is absolutely scrumptious, and amazing when it comes to all things podcasting. Now we’ll talk, I see some familiar faces already, we’ll talk about podcast guesting. We’re going to talk about podcasting today, a topic that I love, and it’s something there she is. Let me officially welcome you to Instagram Live on my channel, and it’s Friday. And those of you who’ve decided to join us, you’ve made a good decision today, either live, which means you’re going to be able to ask questions to the smartest person I know when it comes to podcasting. And if you’re watching the replay, we’re going to be very responsible and repeat the questions, in case you can’t see them in the chat or on screen. Okay, so that’s what we’re going to do today. Jaclyn, how is your day starting? Are you having a fantastic day?

Jaclyn Mellone 

I am. This morning, I got up. I got ready. I put on this pink headband and I thought for a moment, is it too much pink? And then I decided there is no such thing, and I’m channeling all the Elle Woods vibes today. Now ,I’m here with you So yes.

Phil Pallen 

I just love that decision, that was the best decision you’ve made all day. 

Jaclyn Mellone 

We’re just getting started. 

Phil Pallen  

We’re just getting started. And you know what I’m going to do, Jaclyn, while I think of it? I’m going to paste a little comment moment here, and I’m going to pin a comment that’s going to be talking about, let me pin it. One thing at a time here. It’s going to be talking about what we’re talking about today, and I’ve never done a Live about podcasting. But it’s something I think often about, we: Lauren, my colleague and I, publish a podcast every single week. Occasionally, I should say more than occasionally I get pitched from people to be on our podcast, and a bunch of those I ignore. Some of them I respond to, but there’s so much juicy wealth of knowledge in your beautiful pink noggin today about how to podcast strategically, which is why I’m so happy you’re here. We’re going to talk about Plug-N-Pitch. But can you first answer this question, tell our viewers, live and replay, what role podcasting plays in your business? Because I think it’s interesting, and it’s significant. Tell us what podcasting, tell us about that role within your business?

Jaclyn Mellone 

Sure. So my podcast is Go To Gal, host of the Go To Gal Podcast, and I’ve been podcasting for about five and a half years almost. We started back in November of 2015, so I’ve been podcasting for a long time. That shifted over time of what that podcast has looked like. So my first podcast was a co- hosted podcast. With my podcast now, the past a little over two years, it’s Go To Gal. It’s my brand. And what I’ve done with that content is created in a way where it’s this growth engine for my business. Some of that started in the old podcast, but when I was able to set back after podcasting for three years, and rethink what is this going to look like, that’s when I redesigned to this: Okay, this is going to be that engine that’s helping me grow my audience, my authority, that’s bringing in sales, that’s connecting me with the people who I want to be connected to, to relationship builder, all of those things.  

Now, if you are a podcaster and you have a podcast, the best way to grow your podcast is by being a guest on other people’s podcasts. Now, if you don’t have a podcast, and you’re like: Oh, that sounds great, but I ain’t got time for that. Podcast guesting is such an easy, very low commitment way to leverage this platform, this authority building platform that is so different than everything else. With podcasting, I’m a podcasting evangelist, so I can keep you here all day. But the important thing to know with podcasting is people multitask while they listen. It’s a very intimate experience.  You’re literally in someone’s ear, you’re going for a walk with them. You’re in the car with them, you’re doing laundry with them, you’re doing this and you’re showering with them, awkward. But you’re part of people’s lives, and because of that they’re spending more time with you, then honestly, you’re probably going to spend time with us here. So if it was with video, it’s great because you can see us and interact with us, but it’s a shorter attention span. With a podcast, it’s easily a half hour to an hour that someone’s going to consume that. So whether it’s your own podcast, or you’re a guest on someone else’s podcast, even if they just get to listen to you for that half hour, they really feel like they know you, versus maybe seeing your post or your ad somewhere, or even reading a blog post for that matter.

Phil Pallen 

Yeah, yeah, I bring this question up to get us started because I always try to route advice or conversations I have with my audience or with people like you in business. And I think there’s a tendency for people to hear podcasts and think: Oh, just another one of those. Just another thing to add to the list or another way that I grow a business, and I think sometimes people don’t take it seriously. I think what’s so interesting with you is that podcasting is a very important part of your business. You mentioned a growth engine. You mentioned growing your audience making money, you just said that. Can you dispel the myth for people that podcasting is fluffy or unnecessary? Because I think you’re the right person to do that.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Absolutely. So it’s all how you go about it, right? If I just created a podcast because I wanted to talk to my best friend, and we talked about our thoughts on Legally Blonde or whatever, like okay, but that’s not going to lead me to could, but it’s not the same as talking: Okay, I’m an expert. I want to get known as the go to authority on a topic. I have a business and intentionally create, sometimes when we think about podcasts, it’s like: Okay, I have an Instagram like YouTube channel, and you think of it as just like another content channel. But with a podcast, you have the power to really create something that is that growth engine. So you think about what are all of the things that you’re trying to do in your business? I’m trying to bring in clients, I’m trying to find students for my course. I’m trying to connect with other influencers in my industry and trying to speak at events. I’m trying to get featured in the media. What are different goals that you have in your business, and now you can start strategically creating content, but it’s more than just content. It’s going to help you with all those things.  The podcast can be the domino for all of those goals. One, because it’s not just content. There’s something about a podcast, now I will say, this isn’t just a podcast but it’s an authority platform. So I consider a blog and YouTube channel and a podcast authority platform. 

So we can say the same thing here on this live, I can say it in my IG story, or in a Facebook post or over coffee with a friend. But if I say it on my podcast, it holds more weight. There’s just something about it like it’s through an authority platform, so it just feels more significant. You literally can be talking to your audience about the same thing, but on the podcasting platform, they’re gonna be like: Wow, surely, that’s what you’re talking about. I don’t know why I said it’s magical science. But the thing, it’s an authority platform. So whether you’re the host, or whether you’re the guest, you’re instantly getting that authority through that. So you have that power there, with that type of content. But it’s also a great relationship builder. I could keep you here all day with it, but I think for those of you that have a business that are thinking about starting a podcast, getting really intentional about what are all those goals, instead of thinking I don’t have time for because I’m trying to do all these things, think about how can the podcast be that domino that helps you with all of those things. It can really be that top of the funnel content that you can repurpose, you can be building those relationships and getting in front of the right people and opportunities that are going to help you with all of those things.

Phil Pallen 

Yes. I know the theme of today is to talk about guesting and we’re going there next. I think of that thought, I often remind people who are considering starting one, you better be committed to start one because it’s very easy to start one because it’s the shiny new object. But it’s a lot of work, and I think it really needs to be worth your while. And the way to frame this, I bet you agree with this. I think podcasting is amazing, but for me, the benefits are more selfish than anything. While I’d love for millions of people to listen to my podcast, the benefit of that exercise for me is to get on the phone with Lauren and my colleague to actually have informed discussions and be creative. Let people in on that world and create something that A: gets me on the line with someone that otherwise I probably wouldn’t make time to talk to, and they certainly wouldn’t make time to talk to. So it’s like: Hey, Jaclyn, haven’t caught up with you in a year. Do you have time to catch up next week or the week after? No, you don’t, and neither do I. But guess what? Hey, Jaclyn, we should be on each other’s podcasts. Let’s get that lined up. You see how that’s the same thing but position slightly different? 

Jaclyn Mellone  

No, absolutely. People are always thinking like: Oh, I have to wait until I have a big enough audience. But the podcast is actually the thing that can help you grow that audience. And then the real magic of podcasting is you have those relationships that you’re building. Now, whoever it is that you want to connect with in your industry, instead of reaching out and asking them for something, you’re going to be on their platform, you have now something to offer them which totally changes the dynamic and opens up doors, whether it’s for people who you’re already connected with, or doors you want to be open, or actually even doors you hadn’t even thought of opening. People who are going to pitch you where you’re like: Oh, wow, I never would have thought to connect with that person. But that’s a whole new world.

Phil Pallen  

Yes. And literally a finished podcast or even the audio that you save from the recording can be added into a tool like otter and you can transcribe that puppy, and write about 100 tweets from it. You could write a blog post with three takeaways from that discussion. It gets you on the line and in the zone to think and create, and show up in so many places. Okay, so we’ve made our case, for why podcasting is so fantastic. Let’s now transition to talk about guesting. Jaclyn, I have not started pitching myself for podcasts. I think based on the fact that I get a good number of inquiries. People find me or they’ve heard me somewhere else, or they’ve seen my talk or watched a YouTube video and they go: Phil, I’d love to have you on. I’d love to have you on my podcast. And I normally say yes, that makes sense. And I told a story in my Instagram caption, just this morning, about how this week I had a discovery call, led to a sale, and I said: By the way, before you hang up, how did you find me?  They found me by listening to my interview on a podcast, and I was like: You had this launch coming up that I only found out about Wednesday, by the way and I thought okay, the stars everyone knows under the stars right now, with stars aligned for us to have this conversation today. And three people I know, messaged me and said: Wow, that timeliness of this could not be better. I’m interested in popping up, getting my brand out there and going through the exercise for the reasons we’ve stated. So how would someone like me that’s busy, even begin to go about pitching themselves to be on podcasts? Where do you start, Jaclyn?

Jaclyn Mellone 

So you start with who you want to get in front of. We don’t start with what podcasts we like listening to the most, or who we are friends with who have a podcast. That is probably a good thing to keep inventory of, but you want to think about who are the audiences that I want to talk to, because just like with your story, which I love so much, and I’m not at all surprised about. Where are more of those people? What podcast is that person listening to? Because if you’re talking to the right people, it doesn’t matter if there’s an audience of 20, of 50, of a 100 500, a thousand. Some podcasts have audiences of 1000s, 10s of 1000s but I like to say that because a lot of times people are like: I don’t know if I could be on that top podcast. It’s my favorite. But think about if you were asked right now to speak in an event with 50 of your ideal clients or customers, that’s a good opportunity.  Then you just talk about 300 people in a room, well that doesn’t even fit, COVID protocol here. So now you have an opportunity from your home. You don’t even have to be ready on top. A podcasting, it’s audio. Nobody’s seeing you at all. You could be hiding. I don’t have an official stat, but I think it’s like 58% of podcasters podcast from their closets. Really good sound quality in closets, by the way.

Phil Pallen 

Sound quality on closets.

Jaclyn Mellone 

Yes, sound quality is really good in those closets. So you don’t have to have a background. You don’t have to have lighting equipment or look a certain look, none of that. So I think the barrier for entry is a lot easier. And you’re able to get in front of these offices. But that’s that. Where do you start? You’re starting with Who do you want to talk to because I want you to think of these podcasts as stages. And you’re thinking about Who do you want to connect with in your industry? Who was a podcaster. But for this to be the most bang for the buck? Do you want it to be you’re talking to the right people, if you’re talking to the wrong people, you’re not going to get those calls, right? Absolutely. And we have a tendency to go, oh my god, I want to try and get on the podcast that I listened to. But that’s not the right way to go about doing it. Do you have a tool or a place where you begin to look at the options of where you could start to pitch to. Totally so right, if you have an iPhone, you can do this right within the podcast app, I think you can also do this on iTunes on the computer if you don’t have an iPhone, but essentially, if you go down to the bottom of the podcast that you listen to, go like you’re going to listen to it and then scroll all the way past the episodes down to the bottom. It’s going to say: other podcasts like this, or people who listen to this also listen to. And the cool thing about that is that is not SEO, that is not about how many listeners or anything like that. That is literally behind the scenes data from Apple, that saying the people that listen to the show also listen to these shows. So if you’re trying to find other people like this, go check out these shows. And you can just keep going down that rabbit hole. And that’s going to open up a whole bunch of podcasts that you’ve never even thought of before. Sure, you can go to categories and do all that. That’s the way that people expect, but going down this backend channel, you’re able to see what shows people are actually listening to that match those similar demographics. So even if you only know a couple of shows in your niche, that should be enough to really get this going. The other thing to do is think about if there’s a competitor who’s in your space, or someone who maybe has a complimentary service or similar enough where they’re talking to a similar audience, go into podcasting apps and search their name, see what shows they’ve been on. Now do your research, they may not be as informed as you’re going to be here, so maybe all their shows are not the best fit for you. But that’s a way to see where these other people who are talking to the people I want to talk to? What podcasts are they getting on?

Phil Pallen  

So good. Vivaciously Marina says that is such a great tip. You just saved us hours of research. And that’s so true. We love that. I sent out an email all about you that went out yesterday. And I had one of my subscribers named Andrew say: Phil, I thought I don’t know if you know about this tool, but I wanted to share it because it helps you find podcasts and mass refund it, and I learned that morning. It’s a cool one. It’s a cool one that people also may want to check out if you’re wanting to take it a step. Add that to your workflow. If you’re wanting to add in a step to look at some of those competitors or podcasts hadn’t heard of the tool. I thought I should share it, since it was a neat one. Love a new tool. Love a new tool. Jaclyn, so you’ve given us such great tangible advice on like, where to go next and where to begin. Then comes the point of pitching. Now I’ll be honest, and I bet you’re similar. I ignore 90 percent of the podcast pitches that I get. And they try so hard to make it sound like they’ve listened to an episode of my podcast and their raving fans. And I know for a fact, they’ve gone to the iTunes Store, found the most recent episode, copied and pasted the description to kind of loosely include the deliverable and pitch me and I ignore it, I find it annoying. So how do you create a pitch that wins attention?

Jaclyn Mellone  

First, so that’s such a great point, which one I give them credit for because a lot of people don’t even take the time to do that. So a lot of people, it’s just like, and it’s usually the agencies that are the worse, that pitch and they’re just sending a bio and what is this even for? Most people don’t do their homework. So my first podcast was called,All Up In Your Lady Business. Our last episode for that show was December of 2018, I literally still get pitches for it. Really still get pitches, and we have not aired an episode in two years. So people do not do their homework. So the fact that those people have done their homework, it’s a good start. But I can tell you this is an insider tip right here. I wonder if you what’s to join a prompt? Do you want me to say what’s like the number one giveaway that they have done that it’s not genuine? Do you know? I mean, I’m just curious if you like it if you’re looking at it, clearly just copy pasted this?

Phil Pallen 

Well, sometimes the title of my podcast is bolded, and that’s a dead giveaway.

Jaclyn Mellone  

So the dead giveaway for me is the episode number. They’re always listening to episode number 119. And he says that, if you’re going to recommend, if you’re listening to one of my episodes, you were gonna tell a friend, you wouldn’t be like: Oh, I just listened to this great episode number 67 array.

Phil Pallen  

It’s so true. 

Jaclyn Mellone  

People literally teach that. I’m sure there was a time that it works, but it’s so specific that it is a giveaway and especially if it’s like one of the last five episodes. You just went and picked one of the recent ones, thank you for at least trying. But yeah, thanks but no, thanks. So listen, I want to be really honest about this because I think it needs to be said, you’re not going to be able to put yourself on to every podcast. That is a fact, there are a lot of podcasts that you need to go about a different way, because that’s not the best way for those podcasts. Can you pitch and get on podcast? Absolutely. Do we make that personal and make it feel like it’s genuine? Yes. Terry was just telling us in the group, she booked almost 50 podcasts in the last 90 days. How many of you even have time for 50 interviews. So that can happen, but that is also why I included a bonus in Plug-N-Pitch where I call it The Invisible Pitch Method, because oftentimes with the bigger shows that are getting pitched a lot, if you don’t get that response that you want from your pitch, don’t take that no. We don’t cry about no’s, we celebrate no’s. No’s are a good thing. No’s means you’re putting it out there and trying you’re getting feedback, and now you’re on their radar. 

So it’s not necessarily a no forever even if you read the pitch and ignore it, subconsciously, you see you’ve read that name before. And so not like they planted that seed. So now if you’re listening to another podcast, and they’re on it, or if they start engaging with you on Instagram, or if they join one of your programs, even if you don’t connect the dots back to that pitch, they’re gonna feel more familiar to you. So that pitch sometimes gets you in right away. Sometimes it’s just that first seed to a more longer term, if it’s worth it for you. But there’s certain podcasts that are worth the long game, and there’s certain bad guys that maybe aren’t worth the long game. So that’s something you got to figure out along the way, but with the invisible pitch method, it’s all of those ways that you can be building relationships with those influencers and with those influencers in your industry, which is likely something you want to be doing anyway. Whether you’re trying to get on their podcast or not, like who are those leaders in your industry that have an audience of the people that you want to be talking to, and you could probably be helping them to write if you had that same audience, there’s probably collaboration opportunities there. So building those relationships is key now, building the relationship to get on their podcast, but also once you’re on their podcast, building that relationship, so that continues after that interview. 

The magic part about podcasts guesting is during that interview, it’s not just the people who are listening, who are really getting to know you and I want to work with him or her. It’s also the host if you don’t have a previous relationship with the host, you’re not having an hour conversation. So that right there is the start of a great long lasting relationship. You just have to keep that going after. So I did create a bonus called the invisible pitch method, and it talks about ways that you can strategically start building those relationships intentionally for those podcasters who you want to get on their podcast in the long run. A lot of those things, I had to really go back and reverse engineer and unpack things that have happened to me naturally, over the course of time. How can I get into some of these bigger opportunities where I was invited, or I had the opportunity to pitch myself or ask formally, and so I reverse engineer that’s like, okay, here’s how you can do that from the beginning because a lot of this relationship building stuff is innate to me. It’s my background, so I came into this space doing those things, almost unconsciously. It took some time to reverse engineer it, but yes, I think it’s important to say that pitching isn’t always going to work. But that’s okay. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t pitch, it just means it doesn’t stop there.

Phil Pallen 

How much time would you suggest for a busy person to carve out in a week to be pitching themselves or to have someone trained on their team to be able to do it for them, or even a VA or something like that?

Jaclyn Mellone  

Totally. So once you take the time in the beginning, so with my system, you’re really crafting this template pitch. So we give you pitch templates, and different brand voices and all that. But you have to fill in like what are you going to talk about? What is your expertise? What are your authority markers that you’re going to be showcasing there? So once you have that, then it’s the podcast research. That can be outsourced, you could do it collaboratively with a team member, all of those things. When it comes to your specific question of how much time per week, actually on my podcast this week, I have Selena Soo talking about getting opportunities from the media. And we talk a little bit about the media in general, but also pad podcasting specifically. And she said something that I thought was really interesting, profound even, and that how she does media is in, she didn’t use this word, but like in burse, and in this quarter, I’m going to go really heavy on podcast interviews on media opportunities. It’s going to be my full focus, and in that period of time, I’m going to be everywhere. And the rest of the year that really focused on it. I’m like, permission to not have to do it every week. So for some people who are more methodical, and believe: okay, just going to spend a little bit of time each week or have a team member spend a little bit of time each week, and that works really great for them. They can do X number of interviews per month, and that’s great. You’re consistently on podcasts throughout the year, that works. But for people who that doesn’t work for if they like permission to just say, this month or this quarter, that’s going to be my bigger focus, or even to just have the opposite of what we’re saying. But for my podcast, actually, we switch to doing a podcast week for interviews. So we pick one week of a quarter, and I open up for days on my calendar that week. And we record 12 episodes, and then we have the last quarter of content done because what was happening was I only have one call day a week. And so I was just like constantly jamming and all these interviews and it’s hard to go from coaching calls to the group coaching call and all of that. This also allowed us to be more flexible with guests who maybe didn’t have the same call day as me. We were able to have different days. So by having that focus, now we can repurpose that content, we can get ahead, it’s ready. It’s done. My team can take it and run with it, and it’s just one week on my calendar. So with guesting you could do something similar, If you’re like: how am I going to fit this in? Mark off one week where you just go hard with it, and then set it and forget it.

Phil Pallen  

Wow. I just love the permission to not have to do it all the time. It’s like people feel like you’re either all in or not in at all. And actually, for someone like me, I would love to be doing that during the workweek and then take weekends off. I don’t need a lot of meat, but chicken and fish, I do eat but I could cut that out. It’s the same, and it’s the same idea that of it’s not all or nothing. Why wouldn’t you take a quarter of the year, so Q1 is three months. You could do one month of media pitching, use a tool that you taught me about called Qwoted, which is so far, I’ve only done one pitch, but I like it so much better than HARO. I’ll type in the chat loaded, I’ve never been a fan of Harold because it’s been so oversaturated. And by the way, if you don’t know these little words or names that we’re talking about, these are tools to help you get in the media. Jaclyn and I are in a Mastermind together with our dear friend Jenny Melrose, and Jenny started talking about SEO and I was like Jenny, I don’t know what you’re talking about. And Jenny’s like, what do you mean you have the highest domain authority of all of us, and I was like: What do you mean? And I signed in the news. I go through phases, Jaclyn, where I pitch myself and reply to celebrity blah blah blahs. Rita says Harold’s overwhelming, I totally agree. Qwoted, which I put in the chat, QWOTED is a smaller, like a better organized version of HARO. I think it’s more, it’s a little more accessible to journalists who haven’t booked a pitch, but I’ve only done one, and I think I will. I feel really good about that. Anyways, where I’m going with this, if you were to pick a quarter, you could do one month of media pitching, which helps with domain, it helps with SEO and helps with all the things that we’ve been talking. You could do one month of podcast pitching, if you wanted, and then you could take one month off, and then rinse and repeat. This idea of seasonality, I think, makes it feel almost a little mini campaign, makes it feel so much more doable.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Yes, I agree. I’m the same way, I’m not good at one little bit at a time. So just knowing that I can not get knocked a bunch of time and know that I’m upset, and something you mentioned earlier, I think is important to note too, is that you get a lot of invitations for podcasts. I get invitations for podcasts, too. Don’t think that is cheating. Once you claim what you’re the go to authority on, and you start putting yourself out there, podcasters are listening to podcasts. Those of us that are like audio content, and so it’s more likely that we’re like: Oh, that’s the person who’s an expert on this and I heard them give a really good interview. I’m way more confident and excited to reach out and ask that person to be on, or if I’m connected with someone, and it’s really clear what they’re an expert on and I’m looking for that for my show. I’m going to invite them, or a client of mine or a team member. So those opportunities are going to come. It’s taking this initiative to get that ball momentum going, when you have those opportunities more come and then I think we get to the point where you were talking about I was like: okay, I have these opportunities coming. But I know I could really go big with this, I just have it. Knowing that there’s more opportunity out there, you’re in a great position to work pitching in some way, shape, or form and get more results from it.

Phil Pallen 

Fantastic. Let’s talk about Plug-N-Pitch now, which is something you’re launching. I think $27 for an all access pass to Plug-N-Pitch Live. I read the comment I had pinned at the beginning of this, didn’t include the link, I copied it over from a text message and like it said: Here, click the link and the link wasn’t there. But I put the link in my bio, so I’m somewhat organized. And by the way, let’s give ourselves credit for pulling through with all of our little tech glitches here, which is probably me, but we’re still on. We’re still connected. We’re going to talk about Plug-N-Pitch. That’s what’s happening. Jaclyn, tell us what it is, first of all.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Okay, so it started as just a digital product. Last year, we launched this system that gives you the strategy for booking, and then we actually give you the templates and maybe do one for different brands, voices and templates for warm and templates for cold. Because sometimes you know though, sometimes you don’t know that. It’s a different conversation, if it’s totally old, versus if you already know somebody.

Phil Pallen  

$27, are you kidding me? Just to have that written for you, instead of sitting there staring at a blank email,  like Don, amazing, keep going.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Okay, so then we give you the tracking system and the invisible pitch method bonus. So this was the whole system, you get it, you got it, you’re good. Over the last year, a lot of students have a lot of success in getting on all these podcasts and opportunities happening. We’ve also had a lot of students that probably forgot they ever bought it, but never even opened it. So for some, it’s like $27 impulse buy. So through some conversations, what if we took this and ran it as a live, we’re calling it a 3-day Pitch Fest. What if we ran it as a live event and really broke it down into 3 days? What are you going to do each day? Are there mindset things we need to work through? What are your action steps? What am I going to bribe you with, make sure you actually do it, there’s gonna be prizes. And also that community interaction, because I know that the relationship building is such a big piece of this, that a lot of the people who are going to join something like this are podcasters. And also, they’re people who are pitching themselves to podcasts, they’re going to be knowing podcasters. So the idea was to really bring this to life as a virtual event and actually help people take action on it and get it on your calendar and get it done. And for some people, maybe this 3-day Pitch Fest is like they’re going to send out a bunch of pitches, and then they can take a break for a while. Other people, it might be the start of that habit. But yes, so we get started on Monday, it’s three days and then we’re actually doing two bonus calls on Thursday and Friday of next week, and the group itself will be open for three weeks so we can be celebrating your wins. And thanks to our friend Jordan Gil, with the idea for the bingo card. We’re gonna have a bingo card, it has a lot of prizes and fun, and just really simplifying it and making it so it’s easier to take action giving you that accountability and just making it fun because when things are fun, we do them.

Phil Pallen 

Yes. I have the link to it in my Instagram link bio today. So for those of you that want to go check it out, you can go over there and click it. Let’s turn this into an exciting little Q&A, which changes a little illumination up here. And we’ll probably bring you a few more people. Oh yes, we love that. So redesigned live with a guest, and this is my first time seeing the redesigned format. Other questions look good, and we have these separate little boxes. It looks quite cool, quite cool. This question comes from Alison, who says: Phil and Jaclyn, what should I not be doing when it comes to pitching yourself to be on a podcast? Are there any best practices to avoid?

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. So this is also contrary to popular belief. But what I see people doing wrong the most, that I think is taught and is probably appropriate in other things in life, but just not with podcasts, and this is the aggressive follow up.

Phil Pallen 

Thank you for bringing this to light. I just literally deleted for the third time, read from my inbox. And I’m like, I’m not even going to reply to you, because I’m scared you’re going to reply so quickly, and then respond and open that. So aggressive, I don’t reply to them at all.

Jaclyn Mellone 

So in sales, people are taught this and this probably works in sales, maybe In other media, where you’re pitching a journalist, and it’s their job. But with podcasters, most of the podcasters you’re going to be pitching are entrepreneurs, they’re business owners. Booking you as a guest on our podcast is not their primary focus in life. They likely don’t as we’re talking about systems, they’re likely not thinking about podcasts, their guests are going to be on a weekly basis. So if you pitch me on Monday, and you’re trying to follow up on Wednesday, or Thursday, like you haven’t got back to me, that’s not going to happen. So the sensation follows up, but the people that are following up three days later, and then five days later, and then a week later, that’s too much and really obvious. And also, to layer that because I’ve heard people complain about this other podcasters, like a podcaster teaches podcasters to be podcasters. So it’s all of the podcasting complaints from the other side, but not everyone has unlimited space in their inbox either. So a lot of people are attaching these big media kits, you don’t need a media kit to be pitching yourself a podcast, but they’re attaching these big files, and then they’re also doing the aggressive vote. So it’s just like taking up all this space, it feels spammy on the other side. So permission to not follow up aggressively. That’s not to say that you send a pitch and never follow up, but I think following up once within a two week period, and then I would wait another three to six months. At that point, if you don’t hear, that’s when a podcast is a priority for you. That’s when I would start doing the relationship building or the invisible pitch methods, strategies at that point.

Phil Pallen  

Fantastic. The invisible pitch methodology, or the strategy, you have is a bonus in Plug-N-Pitch?

Jaclyn Mellone  

It’s a bonus in Plug-N-Pitch

Phil Pallen  38:05

Fantastic. So there’s another good question here that I want to bring up. If you’re an authority in something that’s very niche, how do you avoid your guesting experiences from becoming repetitive? I really liked this question. It’s a very specific one, but I think it’s relevant for a lot of people. Thoughts on this, Jaclyn.

Jaclyn Mellone 

Okay, so one.

Phil Pallen 

I love how you say, okay.

Jaclyn Mellone  

So I don’t think you have to worry about that. Permission to not worry about that. This is interesting. The people who are the most experienced in media, when I had them as guests on my show, and I’ve done my homework and listened to them on other shows. If I don’t know them well originally, and get to know them, a lot of their stories are the same on all of these. So that’s why they’re so gosh darn good at telling those stories. That’s why they have the best stories to share. It’s like a band playing their greatest hits. So oftentimes, these podcasts audiences are going to be different. Yes, there’s going to be overlap, but they’re going to be different where I wouldn’t worry about it in terms of getting in front of their audience. It’s really with the sharing to your audience, that it gets redundant because if you’re saying similar things on all these podcasts, your audience is not going to be as interested to go listen to guesting on it. But to those audiences, it’s new, and you’re more confident with it, and you’ve refined it and you know people respond well to it, and you can tell it better and all of that. So I wouldn’t worry too much about it, but think about one: a good host is going to try to pull something out of you that’s different. But not all hosts are professional interviewers, most hosts aren’t professional interviewers, and most hosts don’t have time to go listen to a bunch of podcasts to figure out what you’ve already said before. So I think having those core things that you probably do say on all of the shows, but then how can you really tailor that interview to that specific audience. So get taking the time to really get to know the hosts and the audience, and how you can maybe go a level deeper with it or share a more recent story, or more specific story to that audience. Let’s say you help creative entrepreneurs, but you’re on a podcast for photographers. Take a couple minutes of trying to think about how you can apply your examples to photographers? Or have you worked with photographers that you could conjure up that specific story or case study if you will.

Phil Pallen  

Absolutely, that’s such a good idea. You even have a Google Doc with jot notes of examples that make for good storytelling. Obviously, in a podcast, you don’t have accessible visuals, but you could jot down maybe 10 of your past clients that you could describe their wins or the transformation in sentence form. And sometimes you might forget in the moment, I think someone who’s thinking oh my god, my story is repetitive for a podcast. Jaclyn, I’m giving you permission. Permission not to worry about that, that makes your life easy by having maybe in a single or double page Google Doc. Little jot notes to say when applicable. Tell the story about this or this. Sometimes it’s nice to have a little visual reference for what you can quickly look at in case you forget in the moment, if it’s kind of scary, because I know people for the first few podcasts will get nervous, and Alison is here. There you go, Alison, we’re giving you permission not to worry about that. I think too, the way that you tell that story, it’s not going to come across as repetitive as it will to you. You’re the one who’s heard the story the most, because it comes from you. We hear our own voice differently than other people how they hear it, and you hear it the most. So I wouldn’t be too worried about that if anything. It’s fun to hear it told a second time because you go: Oh, yeah, I know that story. I know that person. I know that about them. So I think it’s a great question though. This is another really good one from Marina, so should you pitch Jaclyn, specific topics and if so, how many topics are appropriate? We have some fantastic questions coming in.

Jaclyn Mellone 

Yes. So I love when people pitch specific topics, that is a method that I teach in there. It’s a method that when it’s used on me really works too, because it allows me to visualize what it would be. If you’re like: I come talk about the customer journey like what does that look like? What does that mean? So you want to build some intrigue, excitement, interest, so the host can visualize what that episode would look like. I like three. I think three is a good number. I don’t really have a reason for why, I just it doesn’t feel overwhelming to look at, like if five, I can feel like oh my god, my ADHD is like I can’t do anything. I have seen it effective. There’s only two publicists who send really good pitches to me, Selena Soo is one of them. The other is Angie Trueblood, and Angie’s approach is more singular, but she’s so good. She can own it like: here’s the one. I would say for someone pitching themselves that is not trained in that, it’s giving yourself more options with three and not like all your eggs in that one basket.

Phil Pallen  

Great, great answer. Another good question. We have so many that are coming in, that are really good. So here’s one from Kathy, Kathy, Kathy, Happy Friday, Kathy. Can you suggest a company who can help with editing the podcast? 

Jaclyn Mellone 

Oh, yeah. 

Phil Pallen  

I have a great editor. I have a handful of have a few, if you need a recommendation and so thus Jaclyn, just send us a message. Here’s another one. LPB says, what platform do you think is more convenient for someone starting a blog from scratch? I think this question is relevant talking about podcasting. Blogging and podcasting are long form methods of content creation. One is in audio and one is written.

Jaclyn Mellone  

So what platform to do that on? 

Phil Pallen  

Yeah.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Historically, everyone always said WordPress. I have a WordPress but I think that a lot of these others like Squarespace have come a long way, or maybe a few years ago. People were like, don’t blog on Squarespace, but they really have come a long way, and if you’re not techy, go use Squarespace. If you are techie and creative, WordPress is going to be the most flexible. I would be hesitant to blog on something like Kajabi or something, because while they might be great now courses and all that. I feel like that would be too risky to have all your blogging baskets on, but as long as I guess wherever you’re going to do this, as long as you own that content, and you can move it, it doesn’t really matter.

Phil Pallen 

Fantastic. I agree with that. WordPress is especially good for people who are all in on blogging, and if you’re comfortable with the platform, then it’s great. Squarespace definitely I think gives you more control as someone who is not particularly tech savvy. We build exclusively on Squarespace. The odd time I’ll work on a WordPress site, but I don’t develop that. I have to have a developer on the job, but my clients are busy working professionals that need to be able to update their website from their phone and I think Squarespace, hands down, is the best one for those types of people.

Jaclyn Mellone  

I wish I was on Squarespace. My WordPress is like I’m loved, and needs a lot of work. Super techi so being in Squarespace would make a lot more sense for me.

Phil Pallen

There’s a lot of responsibility, you have to update your plugins, you have to troubleshoot when things go wrong, sometimes plugins are complex. This is why I’m not there, honey. Do you use a transcription tool to repurpose content? Let’s talk about repurposing podcast content for a second. That came up in your podcast for things like social media, blog posts, emails, etc. Do you use a transcription tool, Jaclyn?

Jaclyn Mellone

I think I heard you mentioned Otter, that’s what we use too. With Otter, it’s good, it’s ever right. So before you directly quote anything, I would definitely listen, but if it’s your own words that you’re reading back, you typically know what you were saying. So it’s a good enough start for you to not have to listen and write all of that down and to start editing and repurposing.

Phil Pallen  

Fantastic. Last questions, rapid fire here. Okay, and then I’m going to let you go, so you have a Mastermind today, and it’s a busy Friday. Vanessa’s, for somebody who’s used to visual mediums like television, what tips do you have for transitioning into an audio medium, especially when you focus on visual verticals? Any thoughts are so used to hosting like on camera, for example, which I’ve got a lot of those people in my world.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Interesting. So okay, I feel like my brain is doing gymnastics here like how would that work? In my head, I feel like there’s gonna be so much easier. TV is quick, it is soundbites. It is straight to the point, people are gonna change the channel. And it doesn’t leave a lot of room for the conversation. I would think of podcasting as more of a conversation. But taking your TV experience and layering that, you’re going to be able to give those sound bites that are going to give people those like: Oh okay, I get it, like that quick snapshot of okay. But then allow yourself to then have more of a conversation around it, feel more natural and be building that relationship with the host. Listeners are going to like that chemistry. They want to hear more of the details around it, but I think use your TV experience to like: I know how to get to the point real quick. But then permissions like elaborate a little bit more in storytelling a little bit more. I’m on the spot with that, but does that sound like I don’t come from that background? For me, it was so hard to go to TV because I’m Jewish and Italian. I make a short story long, like concise is not me. And so my TV appearances, I had to really be like hone in and like: this is what I’m going to say and stop myself from going off on tangents. So I feel like it would be that, from your perspective. Did I miss anything there? Any advice for them?

Phil Pallen  

I don’t think you miss anything. I would add that I think a focus on audio or building an audio medium into your practice as a host, I think makes you a stronger communicator. I think visually, visuals can become a distraction. This is what I’m trying to say. And so to learn how to communicate with just this, I don’t have visuals. I can’t look you in the face, so it’s almost like closing your eyes. Imagine how to tell that story. I think podcasting, fantastic for growing your business. You’ve reaffirmed that today, getting on other podcasts having your own as a way to repurpose, as a way to strike up conversations, as a way to be an authority in your industry. Selfishly, Vanessa, I think podcasting is better for you than it is for anyone else. For me, it is time in my schedule where I’m either talking to a guest that I’m learning from and building a relationship with, or I’m talking to Lauren, or I’m talking to myself, and I’m getting my ideas clear. And I’m learning how to communicate knowledge in a way that’s enticing, in a way that’s educational and captivating. The more you do it, the better you get. I went to school for journalism, and I did radio. And so for me, it’s just fun. And I love those skills. For Lauren, my co- host and Lauren works with me on all of our client projects. We work hand in hand together all day every day. She has said that podcasting has made her incredibly more confident on client calls and when we’re doing strategy and consultations. She feels more confident in how she communicates, and I think it’s really cool that she identified. I identified it. To listen to our earlier episodes, at first she was like I’m not proud. She’s like, that’s your department, you do all of that media stuff and all of the light camera stuff. She’s like, I’m back here making money, making us money and managing clients etc. It’s amazing to see the progress from early podcast days to now where she doesn’t travel all over the world. She says in one place, she has this amazing little audio setup. I have everything portable, and I get so jealous because her audio sounds so much better than mine. I get an equity room in Mexico. There’s good things to that, and then there’s bad parts of being on the road. But I think it is such an incredible practice that helps you become a strong communicator. And yes, have a podcast for all the reasons that will help you grow your business, but have a podcast for you because I think it helps you grow and have conversations that are really meaningful in a way that you otherwise won’t have. Those are my thoughts on it.

Jaclyn Mellone 

Alright, I want to add on to that because I think that podcast guesting can also help you with that. Because the host is asking you questions about your area of expertise. So if you’re trying to refine your messaging, what a better way to see what people are actually interested in what they want to know about. I feel like every time I do an interview, I’m like: Oh, I wouldn’t have thought about that, because one, you’re talking about these things. But the host is asking you questions. So it’s giving you that chance to refine your message more, even to translate it to people that are a little bit outside of our space. We’re so used to using certain terminology or talking to our audience that maybe kind of already gets it. But once you get out of that bubble, people are like: What do you mean by that? Or someone I talked about building authority, and someone was like: what does it mean to build authority? What does authority mean? And, and so having that chance to really elaborate more and think about it, I’m like: Oh, I bet there are people in my audience that have no idea what this is either, and that gives me that chance to really explain it better for them too. So yes, it’s like all the reasons to podcast, but if you’re not quite there yet, or even if you are there, the guesting can help with this too.

Phil Pallen 

That’s the right place to start. What I’ve never given that advice, I’m going to start if someone says I want to start a podcast, I’m going to say great. Let’s start a podcast after you’ve been on five guest pods, or you’ve been on five podcasts as a guest.

Jaclyn Mellone  

I don’t know how experience in business, those of you who are here today are, but just to set the bar really low, wherever you are in business, my first podcast interview was five weeks after I started an Instagram account. I didn’t have a website. I didn’t have anything to sell. I didn’t have a PayPal account. It’s not like I didn’t even make a sale yet, I didn’t even know what I was going to sell. I literally just started an Instagram account for five weeks, and was a podcast guest. So I was a podcast guest to talk about how I grew that account from zero to 1000 followers in a month. So I have a story. But it wasn’t like I was the best at Instagram, I had five weeks of experience with Instagram. So don’t think that you need to have years of experience or be at a certain place of followers or revenue, or any of that. You really don’t. You just have to be able to share stories, knowledge, all of that. But no prerequisites, let’s say.

Phil Pallen  

Yes, that’s great advice. I thought of one other thing I didn’t mention yet, which is when you are guesting on a podcast, a few times I’ve actually recorded myself just from my phone, low quality audio and I submit that to otter, which can transcribe your portion of the sentence, which then can be turned into blog posts and tweets. Because to your point, Jaclyn, when you’re in a conversation with someone that’s not overly familiar with you, they ask the best questions that prompt you in the best way to answer and address, discuss, have a conversation around your topic or authority. I talk a lot about content creation and what I do, and how to do that efficiently, that’s one little tip that I’ve been doing more recently, is just keeping my own audio. Just recording it and low quality on my phone while I’m talking to someone and their podcast, get it transcribed, write some tweets, blog posts, Instagram captions from those great ideas that you vocalize on the phone or in a conversation with someone else. On that note, you and I better, I want you to be on our podcast. 

Jaclyn Mellone  

I want you in my podcast.

Phil Pallen  

So I love that I was like Jacqueline, I’ll try and keep it to like 40 minutes and of course that didn’t happen with the two of us. A few people have said in the comments, they’ve said: Wow, thank you for doing this and I want to thank you for doing this. What a fun way.

Jaclyn Mellone  

Thank you for doing this. This was way more fun than me doing live by myself and talking to myself. So I appreciate you doing this with me, and for those of you who are showing up and asking great questions too, see your polling. You’re the host, you phone those questions out of it, so I love it.

Phil Pallen  

Come and join me in Plug-N-Pitch Live next week. I will be there. Thanks to Jaclyn, I’m prioritizing podcast pitching in my business and have a lot of places I need to be. But she’s totally convinced me that this is something I need to prioritize within my own business. So I will be there, link in my bio today. Check it out, guys. $27 for this is such a steal, to have those email templates written for you, to have a framework that you literally just follow, plus the bonus that Jaclyn talked about: the invisible pitch strategy, like you need these things. I need these things. If you’re going to go join, send me a message and we can be buddies in the program next week and at the live event. I think it’s going to be really fun. Jaclyn, have such a good weekend.

Jaclyn Mellone  55:43

You too. Thank you so much. This is a blast.

Phil Pallen  55:46

Such a blast. Best of luck with everything and I’ll see you next week. 

Jaclyn Mellone 

Can’t wait. 

Phil Pallen  

Thank you guys. This will be the archive you’re joining us live. This will be archived on my feed here in just a moment. Give me a few minutes and we’ll get that posted and have an amazing weekend. Thank you Jaclyn again.

Jaclyn Mellone  

 Thank you. So what did you think? Do you have any questions? What are you going to implement on head on over to Instagram you can actually check out the IG Live if you want to see my Elle Woods- inspired get up or just to rewatch a certain part of it in video form. That IG Live does live on Phil’s account. You can go to, go say hi to him over there @philpallen on Instagram. We’ll put this in the show notes too, and say hi to me on Instagram too, all you over there. My Instagram is @jaclyn_mellone, but we’ll put it all in the show notes so it’s easily clickable for you.  

Can I just say thank you so much for listening. I don’t think I say it enough. But I love that you are here. If you enjoyed today’s episode or if you’ve been getting value from this podcast, do me a quick favor. Head on over to iTunes and leave a rating and review. When you leave a rating and review. It basically tells iTunes that they need to spread the word and tell more people about this podcast and I am on a mission to get the word out. I’m so grateful for your support. We want to make sure to shout you out too. So if you do leave a rating review. Keep your eyes and ears open. We will be either shouting out the podcast or Instagram stories.