How to Stand Out and Create a Bond with Your Audience with Sandy Waters

Jaclyn Mellone

Sandy, I’m so excited to have you here.

Sandy Waters

Oh, my gosh. I am so grateful that you asked me to be on. I just adore you. Thank you.

Jaclyn Mellone

Well, right back at you.  So, oh my goodness. Before we dive into everything we’re going to chat about today, take us back to when you were growing up, what were you the go-to gal for back then? 

Sandy Waters

What a great question. Now, if you had asked me this years ago, I probably would have given you a blank stare, like what? I don’t know, but the older you get and the more established you are in your career, you start to look back and reflect and you start to connect the dots.

And it makes sense. So, I would say. I think it would be entertaining, but every time in high school, especially my, one of my really good friends, Stephanie and I, everybody would call us the girls with the camera. Because we would always have the video camera with us. This was before cell phones, everyone, before everybody had a camera and we would always be recording, just entertainment pieces, like a social experiment. 

What would you do before John Quiñones did, what would you do? We would drop money in the middle of the mall and then have the hidden camera and kind of see how people would react. So yeah, we totally did that. Everyone thought we were insane, but we had such a kick out of doing it and I don’t know. I never thought anything of it more than just, oh, I like videos and entertaining people. And now that I connect the dots, oh, okay. It led me right here. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Okay. So where’s all that footage?

Sandy Waters

I don’t know where it is. I want to find it on VHS though. So I don’t even know if we could play it. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Do you know what this reminds me of? “Punky” Brewster, is it Soleil Moon Frye? I don’t know how you say it.

So she was like this, and she had the video camera everywhere, and I forgot what streaming service of all of the ones that were hooked into but one of them had, and they basically took all of these tapes from the nineties and edited them up. And it was her reflecting back and they did other interviews,  but it was all of this old footage from the nineties.

It was a mess. And a lot of these were celebrities and it was really cool to see how much she had documented back then. It is like a big camera. 

Sandy Waters

How about, you and I just dated ourselves completely. Your reference of Punky Brewster. Mine of whoa, I had a video camera. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Fast forward to today. Tell us, what do you do and who do you help? 

Sandy Waters

So, I have two jobs actually. I work in radio, morning radio show co-host, Spezzano, and Sandy, and we are one of the longest morning show teams, decades, which is so hard to say out loud. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I know. I was very shocked at how young you were because you are, I remember listening to you, I feel a lot of my life on the radio. How long has the show been going on? 

Sandy Waters

Do you know how bittersweet that is Jaclyn? 

Jaclyn Mellone

So, you were like 12 when you started, right? 

Sandy Waters

I love it when people say that I’ve been listening to you since I was eight and, oh, I want to give you a hug yet call you a bitch at the same time because I feel so old now. It’s been over 20 years. 

Yeah. But I love it. I love it, love it. And I never thought I wasn’t the one to ever crave the limelight, and I was very reserved to myself. I’m not one to just talk about myself, but being on the show, and I guess it’s what we’ll talk about today too because a lot of people are there where you are, this is privacy still. It’s weird. Why do you care about what I ate for dinner? It’s still kind of weird to me. But once you learn how to put yourself out there, the parts that you want, the parts that connect with your listener, it’s such an incredible feeling. When you say something and your listener reacts in a way, thank God you said it out loud because I wasn’t going to, or you are just like me.

It’s such a cool feeling that it’s almost like a drug that you keep wanting to do it. So that’s what I get out of the show and I just love, love, love doing it. And now with the new world of podcasting, I’ve started to work with podcasters, new podcasters, or maybe podcasters who feel overwhelmed or insecure, or they feel like their show isn’t getting the traction that they want. And we come up with a clearly defined vision of who they are and how they should be presenting the information on their podcast, using the techniques and strategies that we’ve learned in radio. And actually, these are the same strategies and techniques that comedians use.

How many writers use it? And whether you have a podcast or not, you could be listening and thinking, well, I don’t have a podcast. So this isn’t going to pertain to me. It absolutely crosses over to any time you are looking to engage with an audience. You want to pull them in. You want to draw them in. You want them to be your loyal fans. You can apply these same techniques and strategies. 

Jaclyn Mellone

This is really fascinating to me because when you think about especially your career with 20 years in this show and this loyal audience and community that love you guys and all of this stuff. It’s easy to think. Well, that’s just, that’s just you.

Some people just have it, and you’re able to show up and people connect with you. They resonate with you. And, I think a lot of times we think this about our favorite podcasters too. Well, they just have that extra little thing, and you can’t replicate that, and I’ve heard people say that to me, and I’m like, oh, well, I couldn’t sound like you, or I couldn’t sound like so-and-so, but the beauty of podcasting is not trying to sound like other people.

And what I love about what you’ve done with this exercise is, the strategy to pull together because it’s your personality, but it’s your personality on purpose and exaggerated because there’s a method to the madness here and being able to translate that. So what happens when people don’t have this method of madness? What happens when, whether it’s on radio or podcasting or just showing up for their community on social media, what does that look like? Or what does that feel like, sound like when they’re not doing something like that?

Sandy Waters

Yeah. So first, I want to establish that we’re all broadcasters now. Like at one time, point in time, it was broadcasting meant TV, radio, and that’s that. Now, every single person is a broadcaster. If you post on Facebook or social media in any way about anything, you are a broadcaster.

Congratulations. If you’re a podcast or a YouTuber.  So this really does apply to everybody. And I, what I’ve sensed and what I’ve gathered doing this over and over again is people are just looking for permission. And I think I was there too, where, as I said, I wasn’t one to kind of just be that boisterous, crave attention.

I would walk into a room and I’m more of the person who kind of just sits in the corner and observes. I wasn’t the one to put it on and be the exaggeration of me until I learned and had permission to do so.  So when there are parts of you that you like, for example, I am, and I will own it.

Now, these are parts of you that you can just own it and love to own. I am a very risk-averse, crazy neurotic Italian mom. And that is in my exaggeration of you, a character headline. I am very risk-averse. I am not adventurous. Why? Because I don’t want to get hurt. So here I am walking the dog last night, and I broke my finger ’cause I fell.

Me, the person who will wrap me in bubble wrap, Jaclyn. I take that to the extreme.  So I broke my finger. These are parts of you, and everybody has this where there’s something about them that, now I want to give you permission to just own it. So on the radio or on a podcast, I would share that.

And I have shared the fact that I am so risk-averse.  Wait, water rafting? Are you insane? I don’t want to die. Do you know what I mean? But yet I will tell the story of how I tripped and fell on the sidewalk and broke a finger. And now that’s very relatable and it connects with the audience.

Go back and answer your question when you are too focused on just getting the message across because you have something great to say. We all do. And this is what makes you so passionate about starting a podcast or sharing yours on social media your message. When you’re just focused on the message, and you forget to uncover who you are, you become generic. Because let’s not lie to ourselves. We’re not the only ones sharing this message. 

You can get information anywhere and everywhere, but the reason why people are coming to you is for you. So it’s so important to uncover these parts of your personality that relate to your audience. So people would often say, you’re the guide. In your podcast. You’re the guide, and you’re just guiding the listener to the answers. 

But the tour guide, if you compare it to the tour guides that you’ve had in your life, which tour guides are most memorable? The ones that have the biggest personalities, or they say or do something, tell a story about their personal life and relate to whatever they’re showing you.

And then, that connects with you, and they become your favorite tour guide. So you want to become the favorite tour guide to your audience. Does that make sense? So you’ll become too generic if you just kind of give them information and not open up your personality. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. And I think that that nuance that you just said really solidifies it. Yeah. It’s not necessarily the loudest, but it’s that exaggerated. So if, instead of just being a little bit louder, a little bit silly, it’s very much that. Or if they’re a little bit more. Maybe deep and thoughtful, leaning more into that and, and sharing some profound thing on the tour that you’re like, oh, wow.

I didn’t know that. It doesn’t necessarily have to be that boisterous personality, but it’s really them letting their true, their full personality shine through with that. 

Sandy Waters

And these are parts of your personality. So, what I do is we go through an exercise, it’s a pretty extensive exercise and a series of questions, and we meet a couple of times to kind of craft this exaggeration of your character headline as we call it, but you can absolutely try to tackle this on your own too.

If you want to just think about those parts of your personality that really define who you are that you feel comfortable talking about and then putting stage makeup on those parts of your personality. So you’re going to, as you said, just exaggerate, just go over the top with it. There’s a great book.

The Comic Toolbox it’s by John Vorhaus. I believe his last name is, but he’s a comedy writer. And as I said earlier, the strategies and techniques that radio people use are the same as comedians, the same as podcasters. He would refer to it as your comic perspective on things. Have a perspective, a point of view. but exaggerate it. So if you’re typically a joyful person, now you are obnoxiously happy about everything. And I was listening to a podcast, and it was an improv podcast and this guy was insane. He was OCD yet he has that joyful personality. He told a story about taking a stain out of the carpet. Now, he made this stain removal, whatever it is, sounds so exciting.

And he got so much pleasure and joy from it. And obviously, he’s exaggerating it, but it resonated with me. And I listened to that episode years ago. And that’s the one thing that sticks with me because it was such an exaggerated story that I’m like, he’s freaking insane. I thought I was OCD. So look for those opportunities in your personality where you can just lay it on thick.

Jaclyn Mellone:

Now, how does this relate to you? I remember you giving some examples moving forward. Of how this translates into, I don’t know, TV or movie characters. How do we see this there? Cause I think that may help. I wanted to go more into how we can apply this, but I think that helps frame it a little bit of how to think about it.

Sandy Waters

When you, and I know you and I talk about this a lot, and this is the one thing that makes it the aha moment when you hear this, is that, if you feel like, and sometimes you might need someone else to listen to your podcasts to see if you do come across this way. But if you come across as the perfect person where you’re never exposing anything you do wrong because you’re so fixated on being that authority person in Hollywood, when they want to cast somebody that the audience will hate, they create the perfect person.

So if you are too perfect, you are just telling your audience, please hate me. You don’t want that. You want to be connected. You want your audience to come to you and feel, oh, I love her, or I love him because he’s just like me. Actually. There are three reasons why listeners or your audience go from just being a casual audience, customer listener to a loyal fan.

And that’s what we want. We want them to transition into a loyal fan who’s committed to you, and they’ll do it for three reasons. One, they feel they’re just like you. So your point of view resonates with them. I’m a neurotic Italian mom. So a lot of people think, oh, me too. I have crazy thoughts too, or they remind you, you remind them of somebody that they care about. The neurotic Italian mom if your parents are off the boat like a minor. Well, then you can relate to those stories. The third thing and the reason why people transition into being loyal fans is they want to be like you, or they want to be your best friend.

So, Jaclyn for you, when you listen to your podcast, I want to be like her. I want to be the go-to girl. She sounds so sweet. I want to be her friend. And that’s what pulls your listeners in. And you get to find one of those three reasons why your listeners are going to be connected with you.

And that’s only by exposing these character traits that you want to get out there and put the stage makeup on. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. Well, the way you broke this down, it’s so true because there’s always those listeners that, okay, I’m just like you. I appreciate you showing that because they really can relate.

And then I also have community members who maybe work with clients that are like me. So they’re supporting people that are a little bit crazy like me, and it helps them understand that a little bit better. Or I do get a lot the question, can we, are we friends now? Are we best friends now? Well, there are people who, and I am just like, yes, please. Can we be friends?

Sandy Waters

You are an obnoxiously joyful person. That’s you, you would get pleasure out of taking a stain out of a carpet. I can see it. 

I get no pleasure out of that, but I would probably try to find something to make it more fun or else it just wouldn’t happen.

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. No, I avoid cleaning as much as I can. 

Sandy Waters

That’s where I come in.

Jaclyn Mellone

If I’m going to clean, I’m going to make it fun. We’re going to be blaring Hamilton. And they were going to be doing some dance moves. I’ll be cleaning. We’re going to be making it, her making it fun if we’re going to have to do it.

Oh, yes, for sure. Okay. So, I think that really helps because if you are, there’s so much in this online space which I don’t know if you’re exposed to this as much, Sandy, but I’m going to tell you, people, I see this all the time. And your ideal client or customer is you two years ago. This is very common advice, giving a kind of idea of what your ideal client is.  And that’s not always the best ideal client. Sometimes you’re supporting someone who’s very different, and you never were that person. And all the different reasons why that person wouldn’t be your ideal client.

I think this is also permission to be talking to people that are not like us. And that there are these others just by us sharing certain things doesn’t mean that everyone in our community needs to be able to relate to those things or be experiencing those same things. In order for us to be still worthwhile, for us to share that part of our personality.

Sandy Waters

Absolutely. And when you share these parts of your personality, it’s almost like you got to find that conflict. So I was working with a guy in Denmark. This guy is insane. He’s just fearless. He is very, he’s like a men’s coach and he’s fearless. And he talks about how fearless he is, but he said he was face-to-face with a Komodo dragon, and he said, it’s okay. I got it. 

I wasn’t scared. I said, are you kidding me right now? Jumping in cold water’s like nothing bothers him, but what he said, and I said, you have to reveal this on your podcast. He said, the thing that does scare me is when my wife is upset with me or when I let my kids down.  And that is such an enduring quality that you now hear talk about this guy who is so fearless. And he’s like this superhero that is kind of relatable in some aspects too because some of his audience is just equally as fearless or want to be.

But then once he breaks it down and uncovers a flaw that he has like, but I’m scared to death of my wife, or I don’t want to let my kids down. If you reveal a flaw as well, that is bold right there.

If he was to tell a story, it doesn’t have to take over the podcast, it doesn’t have to take over your social media posts. But if it just kind of, you trickle it in there. It’s just these little details that make such a big impact. But if you were to tell a story like this, oh yeah, I have face-to-face with the Komodo dragon, and my heart was not racing. I was calm and cool, but I just saw a spider and screamed like a little girl. I mean, that’s hysterical. So, to uncover those little moments where you show some vulnerability is so relatable to your audience. 

Jaclyn Mellone

It is. Okay. So we’re, we’re teasing out different parts of it. And you did share yours, but what are the keys? And I know there’s flexibility with this, but what are the different components of this headline that we need to have?

Sandy Waters

So, and it’s not a one-size-fits-all. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I know.

Sandy Waters

I want to, but we have to pull back the curtain a little bit, start to see, okay, what am I building here? What is this timeline? 

That was so funny. You’re very much like me when I say, just tell me black and white, what do I need to do? Where are the boxes they need to fill?

This is more of, if you’re going to try to do this on your own, I would say, come up with just one phrase, don’t go too much. And there’s going to be more to your personality than what makes the headline. So it’s okay that you’re not everything. And don’t think that this is completely different from your business and your brand.

This is who you are. So, those parts of your personality that define who you are. Are you joyful? Does the school system tick you off? I was working with a teacher who is or a retired teacher who is so frustrated with the school system. I said, okay. So that has to be in your headline because what makes it in your headline is everything that you say, every guest that you have, every direction of your podcast has to go through the funnel of your head.

So you need to try to address parts of your headline in every episode. Does that make sense? Just come up with a phrase that when you read it back to yourself, you’ll say, yes, that’s me. I am. Do you remember what yours was? We came up with one for you. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I remember it mostly. Do I want to share it?

So what I’m thinking in my head was that it was the first, I feel it was a quirk. And then, oh, here we go with the box and it was driven by, l got to have a formula. 

Sandy Waters

You’re right. You’re right. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I’m going to believe in having a formula.

Just tell me your ideas and then I will just structure them into a framework for you, Sandy. No need for you to do this on your own. No, so I feel it’s like a quirk and then with mine, we did. I think we said driven by or motivated by and gave a couple of examples, but that, and then it was the conflict. So,  does yours fit in that framework? No framework. What I think is important though is that you have lower the quirk because I have done so much with personal branding, and I have not myself, and I had not seen others bring in the flaws and the quirks the way this exercise does. And I think the conflict, the taking that conflict within your own personality is also something that’s really unique to this. And that really opened up my eyes from us going through this exercise because I have done it.

Probably way more branding exercises and branding work and inner work on branding than the average entrepreneur over the last six years. But this is, these were two pieces that I had not consciously brought into the equation. So that was really an eye-opener for me. Okay, we do want to make sure, I mean, just by showing up and being me, I don’t think I ever presented myself as being perfect, but I was never conscious of bringing in imperfections or, and not just three years ago people will tell you their period vulnerability stories. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about more. big personality quirks. 

Sandy Waters

Look for those areas of your, and all of these things in your headline, whether you want to put them in your little buckets or not. They are characteristics that connect with your listener, but your characteristics, when you share stories, they’re going to be over the top.

So if your story is, I’m scared of spiders. Okay. Yeah, there’s a lot of people, but if you go, I am freaking petrified. I’m going to burn this house down if I see a damn spider. Now you just exaggerated it. Now it’s memorable. So make sure when you come up with your phrase, the parts of your personality that you want to show up as in your podcast, make sure you put so much freaking stage makeup on it.

It’s on so many steroids because you want it to cut through. It’s got to connect. If you look, and you referred to it a little bit of going about how Hollywood rights actors think of the cast of Friends, Monica is so freaking OCD. She makes me look normal, which I really connect with her because she is neurotic and that’s me.

And that’s what you want. You want that, Kramer is like, is there anyone really like Kramer in the world? Probably not, but he has it exaggerated. And that’s what you got to achieve. So there is one food blogger that I worked with, and now food bloggers, these mommy bloggers exhaust me because I will never, ever live up to that standard.

They’re perfect. They’re perfect people. Everything is perfect when they post. So she’s a food blogger and I said, you are just so perfect. Your pictures are damn perfect. She goes, well, little do you know, I was feeding frozen pizza to the kids. I said, okay, can you please talk about that in your podcast, so I can like you more? Because I don’t buy the hate. That’s hysterical that you’re spending all this time preparing this meal for your blog, yet nobody can eat it because your kids are eating frozen pizza and dino nuggets. Those are parts of your personality if it makes it to your headline to showcase.

Jaclyn Mellone

Okay. I love how you just brought that to life. Now, where does the conflict fit in? Why is the conflict important? 

Sandy Waters

So the conflict is I’m fearless, yet I scream at a spider. I’m a food blogger, and I know how to make a beautiful meal and I love to entertain, but I serve my family paper plates and I ran out of time and serving them frozen pizza, those opportunities. I’m the mom, who’s the mommy blogger, but you didn’t just see the food fight that happened in my kitchen and the kids are crying. So those opportunities, and really dig deep into those stories too if you could share them, not just, oh, we have a problem with hitting in my family or I just, I dunno why I thought of that.

All kids do that. They all have that problem, but it’s more of keeping our hands to ourselves. It’s more of, oh my gosh, you should have just seen what my son did. He took a train and whack the babysitter with it. They’ll get really deep in those stories. The stories where your audience will say, oh my gosh, did she just say that out loud? Because those are the moments that are going to connect with your listener and your listener will not judge you negatively. That’s what the fear is. I think, don’t you agree?

Jaclyn Mellone

It is. Well, as you’re saying this, I don’t think I’ve done a good job of bringing my conflict into my,  whatever, we’re rolling this podcast into my brain. I don’t think I’ve done it. So since we clarified my exaggeration of you, I’m just thinking, as you’re saying this,  you know what? I don’t know if I talk about it enough for it all, or I don’t know. So with my conflict, we had said, okay, and I think you fought me on that. I think you were offended by the word choice. 

For me, you’re like, are you sure? And I said, no, I really resonate with us. You’re remembering what it is now. So the conflict that we came up with was that I’m very ambitious, but I’m also lazy.

Sandy Waters

But it’s actually beautiful. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I had to just throw it out there because Sandy’s like, maybe we should look at it as a rest. Whereas like some others, I got to know the lazy really well. No, I can be very lazy, and I think part of that is also, I have ADHD and I part of, things that are just part of my personality with that, and people think you’re lazy, but that, and so I probably have just adopted that as my own perspective on things too,  but I feel that, and it is a struggle because I do I’m very ambitious, but I also struggle with just being really lazy about certain things.

And it is totally a thing. And as you’re saying, oh yeah, I haven’t brought this in. I think when this one with this topic, I am a hundred percent sold on it. But I’m also thinking of why haven’t I brought this in? Maybe some of it is fear of judgment, but I think there’s also that fear of it being contrived or inauthentic.

How do we intentionally, with the other parts of mine? I think they’d naturally shine through with stuff I was doing already, but with that, I wasn’t intentionally, I haven’t been intentionally pulling it up in, so do we start to do that without feeling forced and authentic?

Sandy Waters

Yeah. At first, you will feel that, and you will think that but you have to look for it, first, it’s not going to happen overnight. This is definitely something over time, and I’m sure you’ve said it. We’ve all said it. You don’t eat the elephant one big bite, spoonfuls at a time. So this is the same kind of thing.

And these are such little details that will over time make such a big impact. So when the opportunity comes up, it’s not taking over. You don’t want to force it, like, hey, let me tell you how lazy I am today. It’s more of, if something comes up in the conversation because now you’re listening when you’re listening to the person that you’re interviewing speak, you’re in the back of your mind, filtering everything that they say, and everything that you’re about to say through the funnel of your exaggeration of you.

So you’re thinking, okay, this person just said, how hard they work today? Well, let me interject here. Yeah, today was one of my lazy days. I mean, even just saying that or somehow you just somehow sprinkling it in and it will, it may feel forced at first, but over time it’s going to become so natural and you are going to hit a guarantee.

You’re going to hit that, aha, oh my gosh. This feels incredible because now you have it, it’s almost like a bowling alley and you set up the bumpers for yourself. And now, you know how to throw a strike every single time. So maybe lazy, you haven’t found the opportunity to let it come through and that’s okay.

But it will present itself because now it’s subconsciously in your mind, and you will eventually over time find that opportunity to say it. So don’t force it. It’s okay that it hasn’t come out yet. It will. You’ll be thinking about it, and it will.

Jaclyn Mellone

I think I need a post-it note because I tend to just completely forget things.

Sandy Waters

I should send you something on slack. That’s what I’m going to start doing with all my clients. I’m going to get their headline on a plaque because you should have it. You absolutely should.

Jaclyn Mellone

I should be keeping that in mind. Keeping it top of mind like that I think will help because I’m making up excuses for myself as you’re talking. Why haven’t I done this?

I think the biggest, the best excuse I can come up with is that the laziness part tends to be a lack of activity. And so it doesn’t feel noteworthy to talk about. 

Sandy Waters

Let me just tell you, mark it down, check off your list. You already use this opportunity to talk about how lazy you are.

Jaclyn Mellone

Oh, so yeah. I need to bring that in a bit more and because it is, it’s part of my, it’s not like, oh, I need to bring it in more because that’s strategic. That’s literally part of my weekly conflict of that balance of ambition and laziness. And I could say that balance in order to thrive.

Sandy Waters

You could even say an opportunity would be because you’re always wanting to talk. This is another little tip that whenever you post, whenever your podcast says “you” before you say, “I” if you’re starting your sentence with, “I feel” That’s it, you’ve already lost him. That’s not good.

Maybe you’re like me in that I, blah, blah, blah. So for those of you, if you’re lazy like me, that’s okay because I learn how to be ambitious and do get things done. So if you’re lazy like me and now you just invited your listeners in and you’re talking to them, you’re putting them first.

You’re relating with them. Oh, you’re lazy too? Don’t worry about it, or you could even say, are you, are you listening to this podcast in your bed? Have you not moved? Are you lazy? And your family’s judging you? That’s okay. I’m lazy too. I’m in my bed right now. Do you know what I mean? Draw them in, but always say you first. And that was a perfect opportunity to kind of not force it.

Jaclyn Mellone

I’m immediate, I don’t know if my listeners are lazy. If you think that you’re lazy, then you have to Instagram me, but maybe they just want to be friends with me because I’m lazy. Or maybe I remind them of their lazy husbands or something.

Sandy Waters

See? Yes.

Jaclyn Mellone

I’m going back here. That’s so funny.

Sandy Waters

So you nailed it, and it could even be in your post. It could be a picture of you in bed. You look, I’m lazy. Well, who wants to be lazy with me because I don’t think any of you are lazy. I’m the only one. And you’ll get the floodgates of people saying, oh, I’m in, I’m lazy too.

Thanks for the permission to be lazy today or whatever. But see? You right there found the opportunity and that’s why it’s so important. I think. And even with this character headline, you can try to do it on your own, and do it on your own. I encourage you. But sometimes even for myself, I have to revisit my headline because it’s been a while and we should all be revisiting it.

And I was telling my husband because he works on the radio too. And I said, honey, can you do this with me? Can we do this together? And he said, no, you need an unbiased person to do it for you. And that’s why it’s so important to have someone else listen to your show, listen to your podcast, show them your character headline, and talk it through because when we’re at podcasting or when we’re posted, we’re so focused on the message. And there are so many other things that we have to worry about that sometimes we forget to pay attention. 

We hear what we want to hear in our podcasts. Oh yeah, we sound great, but sometimes we miss, we miss those little things, so have someone else listen to it. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yeah. Or we’re just so worried about showing up the best we can or asking the right questions, or is that being the expert. I mean, some people script their entire episodes or script all their questions. And so, it can be hard to let your true personality shine through with that. But even if you’re, if you’re going off the cuff, if you’re worried about, and if your head is like, blah, those things, and you’re trying to do that. You may not realize that you’re not letting parts of your personality through. And that’s the way I think about it, the way I am with my kids, with my husband, with my parents, with my college friends.

I’m a little bit different if I walked like the rotary meeting, I’m going to be showing up differently in all of those situations. Not because I’m inauthentic in any of them but because of different situations, different people pull out different sides of me. And I think most people are like that.

I can do it to an extreme if I’m talking to my aunt. And my husband is like, have you been talking to your hands? Cause I’ll start to talk with an accent. So, I mean, I can do it to the extreme with the mirroring. That flying island accent. 

Oh, it’s horrible when I say things differently, for example, archival or orange juice, it’s so different. I can’t do it on demand, but if I’m here, I absorb it.

I don’t even know. It’s a thing. But I think that’s where, when we think about this, earlier I said, showing up as your full self and I misspoke there because it’s not your full self. It’s, what’s that self for this channel for this brand. Because if you try to show up, nobody can show up as their full self. That’s impossible in that scenario. Because there’s inauthenticity to being, that doesn’t mean you have to be the same every single day or every single time, but you’re just naturally going to show up.

If you were at a job, you would likely walk into that building, and you would have a certain way that you’re presenting yourself, versus when you are volunteering in your kid’s classroom at school by nature of the context of the situation. 

Sandy Waters

Yeah. But in the podcast, when you show up, you are you.

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. Well, and you are by yourself. So sometimes it’s hard. You ask yourself, what is truly me? Who am I? What is the meaning of life? A lot of big questions. Okay. But not all of us have this stuff figured out. 

So maybe I’m obsessed with all of these personality assessments and things like this because I need self-awareness. After all, I am so obsessed with all of it. Tell me about me because I am apparently not at all self-aware about this.

Sandy Waters

But, do you know what’s interesting too? And this is another tip, kind of a little off to what we’re talking about, but it really will make a big impact on connecting with your listeners. Another tip is to draw them in, so many people and you probably see it all the time. Everybody’s so worried about that darn number, a million downloads, or whatever. Okay. If the goal of your podcast is to get the ad revenue, I’m sure that matters. It does matter. But if you’re doing this and chances are you’re doing this because you want to make a difference in people’s lives, who cares? If you have10 people, you become the biggest fan.

You become the biggest fan of those 10 people. So then, in turn, they become an evangelist for you, and that’s what you want. You want to connect, reach out to them when you post, let’s say, you’re going to do a podcast up sewed on, I don’t know, healthy eating or something before you record that episode, post some post about it.

And in the comments find those listeners who are always commenting and invite them in on the episode with you. Hey, do you have a second? Because that’s the one thing that is one unfortunate thing. That’s the one thing that I feed off of on the radio is that interaction, instant interaction back and forth. I know when something’s resonating and what you just mentioned that you’re just sitting in a room, talking to yourself. It’s hard to keep going because you don’t know if it’s resonating. So why not invite listeners in on the show? Hey, I’m recording on Tuesday at three. Will you just jump in on this with me? They either sit in the whole thing, just listen to you. So you can wing it. It’s almost like a live studio audience, but you can watch the reaction to what you say and then incorporate them, but they will be so loyal to you because now they spent, you took time to reach out to them.

They spent time with you. They feel special. They will never leave you. And that’s how you win listeners one at a time. Who cares about the thousands? Unless you’re just going to do the pre-roll, post-roll nonsense with the ads. To make a difference, reach out to each individual, invite them to react to their post. Sometimes they’ll post something on Facebook if you just liked something, they’ll say, oh, I got Jaclyn like my post. That’s how you win listeners. No matter if you’re podcasting or you own a business. That’s a little tip. 

Jaclyn Mellone

This is such a good tip. One, this is absolutely a strategy that I use that I have my clients use in terms of, okay, let’s take those 10 and have them all. Tell somebody to read them. You can double your audience and you can keep doing that. 

But this idea of inviting them in. Listen, because I’ve done a little bit and we’re going to start doing more with hot seats and kind of having people be a part of the show in different ways. But I need a head-like exploding emoji here.

I can’t imagine a live studio audience. That is such a fun idea. How could we make those work?

Sandy Waters

You will see that we used to do that on the morning show before COVID, a live studio audience. And those were the best shows because we were, it’s weird talking in a microphone hoping you’re connecting, but when you see the facial expressions, you can say, oh yeah, that really resonated.

Let me, let me elaborate a little bit more on that, or it just makes them fit. You just want to make your listeners feel special, whether it’s 10 listeners or a thousand listeners, even just dropping their name. If that, I mean, that takes a lot of work to connect with them. Get them on the show. I know that’s a lot.

So if you all have that kind of time, then even just saying their name. Hey Sarah Johnson. I love you. You are always commenting. Or even just saying, hey, Sarah Johnson said on our comments on our Facebook, just by saying their name. Now, you’re in the beginning. You can make up names. I’m just going to say it.

I’ll pretend I didn’t say, and you could pretend I didn’t say it, but in the beginning makeup names and then the real names, the real names will come in. You’re just building a community. And when people hear other names and other people commenting, then it just gives them subconscious permission to comment and interact with you.

Jaclyn Mellone

So good. I  love bringing people in. I’m totally into thinking about how we can do a live studio audience. So this is a little bit off-topic, but this is something I’ve heard people say. And as the radio professional that you are, I’m curious about your professional opinion on this, it sounds like we might be in agreement here.

So. I’ve heard people say that because I record video for the podcast and some people deliberately do not record a video because they suck on theirs, but they say they’re they don’t record video because it when we can see each other, there may be a part of the conversation that doesn’t need to be said that we could kind of be leaving the listener out.

Let’s say if there’s a video where we can’t see each other, it’s more in tuned to be exactly how the listener is going to experience. Now, I like to do videos because I feel more connected to you, and I can see your beautiful face. It’s just, it feels more, I don’t know if it feels more like we’re having a conversation.

And not just that I’m talking to a voice and draws me in more with that. Clearly, I can see you. No one else is seeing you right now. But with the live studio audience. That’s interesting because then you could see those faces too. Do you think that having, but when you’re saying, if you’re recording with the live studio audience, that would be the same type of thing?

So do you think it’s important? Do you think that that’s a, I don’t know. What are your thoughts on this whole thing?  

Sandy Waters

I will be completely honest. In the beginning, I mean, I’m a radio girl all about just audio. Okay. I don’t need this. And there were so many people to try to sell me on, do video, do video.

I said I’m not doing a video. That’s another hassle of putting on my makeup, making sure my clothes are right. Do my grace show. Do they show because I haven’t colored my hair for way too long? It’s just another layer of insecurities it surface. But then once I started doing video, it does make it so much better because we’re looking at each other’s facial expressions, and I do feel close. I feel like I’m sitting right there next to you. And I do feel like the conversation is better and richer when you do have video. And then you could use the video and repurpose it on social media and its teaser videos. And in the world we live in, you just have to, I mean, there is no more just audio and some people are very successful with it and that’s fine if it really totally freaks you out, don’t force yourself, but it does add that layer of intimacy.

The people and your audiences are curious, and they’re going to go to your Facebook and social media and look for the video, so you should be repurposing it and teaser videos and whatever I know. 

Jaclyn Mellone

No, it’s a good take. And I haven’t been doing my solos. I haven’t been doing a lot of solos and when I do solos, I typically don’t do video. So, I might start trying to see how it would go. 

Sandy Waters

You do your Instagram live. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I think what you’re referring to, so they’re not live, those are videos. So I am working with everybody with those…

Sandy Waters

…those little tricks though.

Jaclyn Mellone

I’ve been totally tricking people.

Sandy Waters

Because you’re lazy, and you’re finding them lazy.

Jaclyn Mellone

And if it’s up to me to record the video, I won’t record the video. So I need to have a team member get on zoom with me, and ask me questions and record me. And then I, and then they take the video. So when I do those videos, I am on zoom, just like this, only my team member is on with me. They’re unmuted hopefully, and sometimes not. And we’ve had, we’ve had to learn that lesson along the way.

And, but that’s the accountability for me to do it plus I get that energy from people. So if it’s not just me sitting at my computer, talking to myself, they’re giving me that prompt and then I’m able to see what’s resonating with them. So that does help sometimes through a detrimental thought because we’ll make each other laugh. And then I just feel a little bit too silly, but that’s okay. 

I’m silly. So it works, but sometimes, oh God, this is making you laugh. But then I’m making myself laugh too. And I’ll get it. But we’re just going to go with it. It has been such a hack for us to be able to create more content because then I can just put a couple of those calls on my calendar month and then they’re able to just take it and run with it from there.

Sandy Waters

And a lot of people do that. Don’t they schedule out? Okay, on Mondays I post a video, on Tuesdays I post an inspirational quote, on Wednesdays I post. There’s a formula, and you like the plan and the formula. 

Jaclyn Mellone

So it’s just so funny though because my team is probably dying right now. They’re like, oh, Jaclyn with the plan. But I guess I am not that structured, but I, one, I find. That it’s easier to communicate with, hi, are you listening? If I have that formula. It’s able to make it more actionable and implementable for everyone. But also, it’s easier to stick to and delegate.

So I may not need that for myself, but as I’ve been growing a team, I find that the team really thrives off of those things. That’s been the easiest way when we have those systems and processes that run like clockwork, even though that’s not my nature at all. And I’m usually not the one having anything to do with this. It’s the team that’s really making it all go together. But when we have that, that’s when they can do things without me. And when they do things without me, that’s when we’re really sailing because if I have to be involved in the nitty-gritty of the process, I am going to slow everything down. I am, hello, the biggest bottleneck ever.

Sandy Waters

So we know you so much today.

Jaclyn Mellone

I am the biggest bottleneck on my team. So that is our mission is that everything that Jacklyn is slowing down and out so how do we avoid that? And also when I’m able to stay in my zone of genius, and do those things that I love the most, but also that come the most easily to me, I’m happier.

And I’m able to do those things better than when I’m getting bogged down with stuff., So, yes, I don’t bring up these things because I have this grand love of them, but I know that other people need them, especially my team in order for us to be able to operate. 

Sandy Waters

Yeah. I love it.

Jaclyn Mellone

All the pieces together. Okay. Do you have any final tips for someone who wants to start trying to put this together on their own?

Sandy Waters

So I would say pay attention to really connecting with your listener, make them feel special. Find those areas of your personality that you don’t mind talking about in the most exaggerated way.

Look for that vulnerability quote flaw in your personality,  and look for those opportunities where you really connect with your audience and just come up with a phrase and if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t feel right. Well then tweak it. It’s not set in stone. And then just focus on that. Every time you go on the air, every time you post on social media, it’s going through that filter.

Jaclyn Mellone

All right. And then if people want to work with you on this, to keep in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to do that? 

Sandy Waters

Well, if you’re listening to this right now and you reach out to me, just make sure you tell me that you heard it on Jaclyn’s show, The Go-To Gal and I will be more than happy to just sit down with you 20 minutes, half-hour, we can talk about your podcasts. I’ll listen to your podcast and critique you. I’ll help you start to formulate yours. You know your character. And then if you decide that you want to work with me, we can work together, but I’d be more than happy to just, kind of give you a little critique in the beginning. If you want to sit down on a one-on-one, you can find me on social @sandywaters98, anywhere on social, or you can email me directly at sandywaters98@ gmail.com.

Jaclyn Mellone

Amazing. Oh my gosh. That is so generous of you. And I know that you’re not going to have an unlimited amount of those. So if you are hearing this, email her immediately. If you were interested in that because oh, Sandy, only has time for so many, that’s very generous of you to offer.

All right. Thank you so, so much, this has been a tool that’s really helped me and is still helping me. So having this conversation brings me back to, okay, I could be doing better at this. And I’m excited for our listeners to really start thinking about this too and bringing it into, not just if you have a podcast, of course, but to all areas where we’re showing up because as you said, we’re all broadcasters now.

Sandy Waters

Yes, absolutely.

Jaclyn Mellone

Thank you so much.