How to Align Your Mindset + Visibility Goals with Kylie Hodges

Jaclyn Mellone

Welcome to Go-To Gal episode number 209. As always. I’m your host, Jaclyn Mellone. And, oh, there goes the dog. All right, so on that note, I let Louie outside so you don’t have to hear him barking. And let’s dive into our episode today. So we are going to talk about visibility today. We’re going to talk about the mindset of visibility, what it means to really show up. We are going to dive into those from all different angles with our guest today. Her name is Kylie Hodges. She is one of my friends. We’re in a mastermind together. And she has a little bit of a different approach than I do, but we also overlap out a lot of things. And I was really excited to have this conversation with her. An extension of some of the conversations of her and I had been hashing out in Voxer. One of my favorite things to bring to the podcast for you is if I’m talking about something, I want to be having that conversation with you. So we’re going to talk about how to manage visibility when maybe if you’re on the introverted side, what spirited action means, and how it can propel you forward. And really just what it really looks like to get in front of your audience in a way that they actually see you? And that one of the things that Kylie talks about is how you can be technically visible but not really visible. And you might know what I mean by that. You might not, but that’s okay. I’m not going to elaborate because we’re going to go into this in the conversation. I’m just like, let’s get going here. Let’s dive in. I do want to formally introduce you to Kylie first, and then we will kick off this conversation. 

Kylie Hodges is the Founder of Coach in Demand, or she works with talented coaches who want to turn their underearning, overwhelming business into a client and money magnet. She helps coaches who struggle to earn enough money or inconsistent with attracting and closing quality clients, and don’t know what else to do. With the help of her Fully Booked and Free process, they learn how to bring in loyal clients and simplify their to-do list while making more money so that they can stop the anxious, wishful thinking, and finally fulfilled the reason they became a coach to begin with, to make a big impact. All right, let’s get to it. Here is my conversation with Kylie.

Kylie, I’m so excited to have you here today. 

Kylie Hodges

Thank you so much for having me. I’m thrilled to be here. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. All right. Before we dive in with you and everything exciting going on now, take us back to when you were growing up. What were you the go-to gal for back then? 

Kylie Hodges

Okay. I have a feeling no one else has given this answer. My childhood dream job that I knew everything about was to be the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile spokesperson. So I, really from a young age was like the go-to gal for being a brand ambassador. It’s insane that I was just like, I’m ready to sell at a very young age. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Right. Okay, wait. So this is so specific and amazing and hilarious all at the same time. Did you know someone who was this person? I need more context here. 

Kylie Hodges

Sure, sure. So I grew up in Madison, Wisconsin, which was for many, many years, the headquarters of the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile. And if people aren’t familiar with the brand, Oscar Mayer, they make hotdogs. And there are six Wienermobile vehicles that are spread out throughout the country. But a couple of times a year, they always come back to headquarters because the drivers only have a one-year contract and they always recruit recent college grads. So in Madison, it’s pretty common to see a Wienermobile. And I was one of those kids that audition to do the Super Bowl Halftime Show Wiener jingle back in the early 90s. So from the get-go, I was really brand loyal to a hotdog company. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Okay. So I have to ask, did this dream ever come true?

Kylie Hodges

Well, it sure did, Jaclyn. It was my first job after college. I was on Oscar Mayer hotdogs. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I feel like from a young age. Oh my goodness. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes. I peaked at 21. And then I spent my first couple of years in the working world thinking, oh man, I peaked too soon. I got my dream job right away. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Because where do you go after that, really? Once you’re that then what’s next?

Kylie Hodges

There’s nowhere else to go. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Oh my goodness. Okay, I have a feeling that this is going to come up again. But let’s fast forward to today. Tell us what do you do and who do you help? 

Kylie Hodges

Great question. My name is Kylie Hodges, and I am a business coach with Coach in Demand. So I help coaches who are underearning and overwhelmed with their business and turn it into client and money magnets. Essentially, I help coaches get back to doing the thing that they became a coach with to begin with, which is to make a big impact. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Ooh. I love how you say that. 

Kylie Hodges

Oh, thank you. 

Jaclyn Mellone

So do how do you do this? What type of work do you do with your clients? 

Kylie Hodges

So I have a very high-level, intensive program called Fully Booked and Free. It’s an inner circle. And this is where I work with coaches who are in a place where they’re like, I’ve duct-taped and scrapped my business together. I hit my first X dollars that I wanted to hit. And now, I realized that the duct tape is falling apart and I don’t really know how to get out of these systems that were just scrambled together in the beginning when I found out I could grab some clients. And I haven’t figured out how to scale and really chill out and make a business that is sustainable. And so, I work with them really on four different areas: sales, marketing, pricing, and packaging, and then their backend management. And of course, mindset is wrapped up in all of that. But it’s really all about making sure that those first four areas are in place in a way that serves, that they want to live in the business, that they’re interested in building so that they can scale. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. So visibility is clearly a big part of this. And I know that’s really what we want to dive into today because we were talking about this, just us talking like different things involving visibility. And there’s so much to it. It’s definitely a word that’s thrown around a lot. But it’s also one of those things that’s easier said than done. What’s your, I guess, how do you define visibility? I guess before we dive in, let’s start with the definition here. 

Kylie Hodges

I define it as simple as just being seen by your audience.  You can literally be standing in front of people and talking to them. But if you’re not showing up in the way that they need to see you, you’re not getting visible. So I would define it as a marketing moment that starts internally with how you carry yourself. Do you really believe in what you’re saying? Do you really believe in the offer at the end of the road with what you’re talking about? And do you believe that the people in front of you are the right people to be hearing you?

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes, okay. I think you hit the nail on the head with, you could be literally standing in front of someone but them not seeing you, them not seeing that in you. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes. 

Jaclyn Mellone: Okay, elaborate more. Has that happened to you before? Do you see this happening with your clients? 

Kylie Hodges

Totally. This is another iteration of a business that I started years ago. Now, I’m a business coach. But when I first started, I called myself a wing woman. And I was this person who was truly a side hustler extraordinaire. I was working with any service-based business owner who didn’t like sales and thought that the way they needed to grow their business was to have somebody network for them. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I didn’t know that this was even a thing.

Kylie Hodges

Yes, well, so it wasn’t really a thing. And I hate to break it to your audience, but the business model didn’t work very well. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Fair enough. 

Kylie Hodges

But I learned a lot. And what I learned was the reason I pivoted out of that business was because I was networking on behalf of other business owners who didn’t have a super clear understanding of their audience and also their sale cycle in general. So I was going to networking events that these people told me to go to talk to the type of people they told me to talk to. And I could see a deer in headlights facing me when I would say, hi, I’m Kylie. I’m actually here to talk on behalf of so-and-so, you know, a colleague of mine. They’re really great coaches, and this is why I think I should connect them with you. And they would be looking at me like, what are you talking about? And it was one part because they were confused about my business model, which is understandable because that was a confusing business. But a major part of it, because I got a lot of people on the phone with me, a major part of it was my clients, the people that I was representing were going after the wrong people. And they hadn’t made a decision about how they wanted to show up in front of these people. So they were hiding from their audience by hiring me to get in front of them. I imagined that not many people listening has gone out of the way to hire someone else to network for them. But I do think that a lot of people can probably relate to knowing that they’re talking to the wrong person and not willing to admit it to themselves. And that can be really devastating for a business. It results in no business. 

Jaclyn Mellone

A hundred percent. Well, and maybe not a lot of people have gone to this extreme of hiring someone on their behalf. However, which I just still feel like that’s something I could have done in my 20s. But maybe not because maybe that was a bit and I’m like, I loved going… We could have hit up. We could have been the wing woman dealing with them together. 

Kylie Hodges

We could have been a wing woman. 

Jaclyn Mellone
Wing women, it’s a missed opportunity there. Oh, I love this as such an extreme example because it just illustrates it in that literal way. But isn’t it the same thing when we buy templates and post the templates with the copy from someone else’s voice, or with the same imagery that everyone else is using? Or if we just try to outsource everything, I don’t know if someone listening if they’ve been, but I’ve had that before where I am, believe me, I have tried to outsource a lot of things related to coffee. And it’s just so, so hard. And when it comes to social, if you just like, oh, I wish someone else could just write this all for me. But then when they do, when it doesn’t end exactly to your point, there’s been points in times with different offers where I haven’t had the clarity to be able to out of my head to tell someone else so they can do their job effectively too. So I, as an entrepreneur, have to take ownership of that too. So I think that that is definitely more of how do we experience it in the online world. But I love how you’ve brought that to life with it, it’s not even a metaphor, it is a real-life example. I’m trying to pitch these women’s services. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes. It was definitely an extreme example, but you nailed it. All of those examples you gave like buying templates, outsourcing something, that stuff can work but you need to be intentional with what are you doing with those resources and have you really made a decision about what you want the outcome to be, and even a decision about how you want to show up through those resources. It takes internal work before you can bring anybody else or anything else in. 

Jaclyn Mellone

A hundred percent. Okay, so it takes internal work. It takes the external work. And this is all stuff that we talk about here. But to narrow it down for our conversation today, I guess, where do you see people going wrong with visibility? Is it more of them doing it wrong or more of them just hiding totally, or something else that I’m not even thinking of? 

Kylie Hodges

No, I think that’s a really good question. And you nailed it. It’s a little bit of both. However, I’m thinking specifically about the people whose words don’t align with their actions. They say they work with this person. They do X, Y, and Z, and yet they’re not showing up for those people.

Jaclyn Mellone

Tell me more about that. I feel the rants coming. 

Kylie Hodges

Can you feel my blood pressure rising? This is like my pet peeve. It is. People who are only willing to passively market. Visibility requires to be actively marketing. And I can get into the weeds on this, but there are four different ways that I think you can easily actively market. And what I mean by that is when you are delivering your message out of your mouth and it’s being received by other people through their ears. So they’re hearing you like right now on this podcast, or you do a live talk or something. It is the fastest way for people to know, like, and trust you when they engage with you in a Live, we’re listening-type scenario. Passive can look like writing a blog and then never doing anything about it again. Or what I see more common is making an Instagram account and just making a post with captions, and not even engaging with other accounts or sharing your posts. It’s the idea of busy work that I think is what really works me up here. People say they’re marketing and they’re getting out there but really they’re just having fun being busy in a way that no one’s actually seeing it. So I imagine, to answer your question, this all comes back to people who are technically doing things, but really they’re actually not. They’re just hiding. They’re hiding behind the to-do list and it feels good and busy but it’s not showing any results. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes, although I will confess. I long for the days of Instagram before Stories, before Reels, before Lives, and when we could just post a quote card.

Kylie Hodges

And why is that, why do you long for those days? What made it so great to you? 

Jaclyn Mellone

The simplicity. With Instagram, specifically, it’s like five platforms in one. It is not one platform. It is so many, and I don’t like that. And I will say, the type of marketing that you’re talking about is the most effective. But it can also be energetically draining, and we also have to be in the right frame of mind for it. And depending on how we do it, it can also be time-consuming or whatnot too. So there are a lot of reasons why people don’t do it. However, it’s important to do. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, and you’re right. Instagram itself totally is a thousand platforms in one now. Totally exhausting. You could spend all day just creating a piece of content.

Jaclyn Mellone

Instagram wants me to be an employee. If you take the amount of content that they want you to create for Instagram on a daily basis, I could totally be making six figures at a fast company to create that much content for them. 

Kylie Hodges

Oh, you’re so right.

Jaclyn Mellone

Needy AF. 

Kylie Hodges

Oh yes, they are needy. Let’s get them on the phone.

Jaclyn Mellone

But that aside, I think it’s that love-hate relationship because it’s also one of the platforms that do feel the most intimate in terms of connection. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, there are many ways to play on there which is one side annoying and the other side exciting because it’s different ways to connect with your audience. And I hear you. It can be energetically really exhausting to show up in the way that I’m talking about on here. And when I think about the people I’m thinking of who is hiding essentially from being visible are the ones who aren’t doing the work to create a launch. They’re saying they’re launching, but they’re not actually doing it. And it can even go on a higher level, if you have a mission in your business then follow through with it. It doesn’t mean you have to be on 24/7. Please give yourself a break. But are you willing to get over your fear of being vulnerable or your hesitation of being seen for the sake of sharing your message in a way that you know that the people who need to hear it will actually hear it?

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. As you’re saying this, what I’m thinking, tell me if I’m on track with this. But I’m imagining the people that you’re calling out with this which is, this is a call out, this is a call in. Some tough luck from Kylie here. 

Kylie Hodges

I guess nothing about me is gentle, but I’m trying to gently call in.

Jaclyn Mellone

We’re going to call him out, call him in. But these are the people that are not getting the results that they want. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes. 

Jaclyn Mellone

And so, it’s not that you are personally offended that they’re not doing these things. It’s that you are frustrated for them that they’re not hitting their goals. I don’t want to put words in your mouth but like, where is this coming from? Because I think that’s important context as we go a little deeper with this. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, you nailed it. I am very attracted to and inspired by people who go into their business for the sake of making a better change in whatever arena they care about. And so, it makes me so mad to see the potential in someone. They’ve already gone out of the way to learn their skill very well. Create their product, make a business out of it. And then to waste their own time and to tease me and tease the world that they have this beautiful, magical thing that can change people’s lives that they’re willing to offer but they’re not actually willing to do the work to get it out there. Because they’re scared. They’re nervous. They’ve got a million different beliefs that are probably keeping them from showing up. But you nailed it on the head. I’m frustrated with people because I see the potential in others and it’s my biggest pet peeve when it’s not realized. 

Jaclyn Mellone

What I’m picturing now is I think we all have this in some way, shape, or form. Just taking it out of business for a second of, okay, maybe it’s irrelative or a friend, or they’re picturing a failure to launch concept, or relatively like, they’re so smart. If only they got off the couch and got out of their parent’s house and did the thing, or they have a friend who is so beautiful but just doesn’t think it and is beating themselves up over it, or is with the boyfriend that is treating them like crap and you know they deserve better. I feel like it’s like that. We care about people and we see that potential in them but there’s something in the way. And yes, it’s that kind of feeling.

Kylie Hodges

Exactly. It’s seeing you nailed it. It’s seeing your best friend who you know is the most brilliant, wonderful person in the world, and you know they’re capable of X, Y, and Z. And if they would just dump that guy or just get over their fear and send in the application to that dream job, it’s all those things. It’s so easy for others to see the potential. It’s so easy for me to see the potential in others. And yet it’s so hard for ourselves to see the potential in us sometimes. I imagine we all hit that moment at some point in our lives. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Totally. I do not personally relate to this lyric, but what’s in my head is the lyrics to Ironic. I have Alanis in my head, “it’s meeting the man of your dreams, then meeting his beautiful wife.” I don’t know why that comes up. It’s ironic.

Kylie Hodges

Little too ironic. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Isn’t it ironic? Don’t you think? Some of this stuff can be heavy, especially if you’re the one being called out or called in on this conversation. And you’re like, oh, how do you know? How do you guys know? We can laugh. This isn’t pointing fingers. This isn’t meant to be blame and shame. But this is like, okay, how do we break free from this? So I guess let’s turn it to that now. So have you personally have been that person before? And it’s okay if you haven’t. I’m just curious. Have you been there or have you not been there but you still identify with it?

Kylie Hodges

Yes, I have been there and actually, recently, I would say 2020 was that for me. And I felt terrible about myself. So that’s why I knew something was up. I was frustrated with myself because I knew it was about my business. I knew it could be better and I could feel resistance but I couldn’t put my finger on what the resistance was. And I figured out I wasn’t working with the right person. I realized I really wanted to be working with coaches. And I had some beliefs that, that wasn’t possible, or I wouldn’t succeed at it. But it took me a year to really come to terms with that resistance. And once I accepted it, everything changed. I should also say once I accepted it and then decided to do something about it, everything changed. That’s a key, change.

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s the key. That’s the key part. And also an important distinction that those are not one and the same too. That’s important to take note of, okay, like coming to terms but then also taking action on it is the thing that actually solidifies them.

Kylie Hodges

Yes. These are not my words. The brilliant Melissa McFarlane once said to me, take spirited action. Only take action and something that really you can feel your spirit that lights up or aligns with. And I don’t know, it doesn’t matter how you feel spiritually. But whatever that thing is within you that feels like a little bit of butterflies, if you can take action aligned with that then you know you’re headed in the right direction. So when I accepted what the problem was and I figured out what spirited action looked like for me, that was when the ball really started rolling. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Ooh, okay. I have a follow-up question here that might be too detailed. But I’m curious. You say, feel take spirited action. If I’ve ever heard people say, inspired action, I’m on that. There’s a feeling that I get when I feel inspired. And that’s different for me than the butterflies. Now, I think it’s easier to feel the butterflies than it is to feel the inspiration sometimes. Especially with this type of showing up, I’m processing this for myself too. And if you don’t know the answer to this, we could just brainstorm it. But I don’t know but is there a distinction for you? Because I do think I have been in that place in the past, I’ve been in that place in that current where it’s like, oh, I just don’t feel like doing that or I don’t know what I’m going to say, or I can let my head get in the way of the inspiration. But if I pump like pop myself in a situation where I maybe have some butterflies or whatever that turn into, I almost feel like it’s harder to have an excuse. I feel like I can tap into that butterfly feeling easier. This is like a very nuanced thing. But sometimes, I know for me, that’s the thing I can get caught up in. So sometimes it’s good to go to this level of detail.

Kylie Hodges

Yes, I’m glad you did because I’m realizing that the way I described that, I think I was lumping a couple of emotions into one there. I do think, of course, people can feel differently when it comes to their intuition. I agree that maybe the butterflies aren’t necessarily always going to show up when you have a gut instinct. And so the way that I took the term spirited action and applied it to me as I realized what was missing for me was a sense of joy in my business. So I decided, spirited action was, I was only going to do something if it was in service of others and in service of my joy. And if it didn’t fulfill both of those, then it didn’t make the to-do list. I think spirited action can also be something that’s applicable to how I choose to interpret it in any way you want. And if for you, that means you need inspiration, then let it be the lens of deciding things can only make it on your to-do list if you feel inspired. Or if you need to feel the jittery excitement, butterflies in your stomach, then let that be the lens. But I suppose I don’t have a real answer other than it seems like it’s a nuanced moment and you can choose how to interpret it in a way that just gets you going.

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. Well, I think the big lesson here is one, we’re all different. And so, going back to one of the things that you said earlier of turning in. And I think this is part of it is really getting that awareness in our bodies of how certain things feel good, things that don’t feel good. And not that we’re just going to be floating in bliss every day, but we know when we’re in that really hard resistance or overwhelm, or it’s just all of the whole variety of negative emotions you could be feeling. And so getting underneath that is and not ignoring it but at the same time, paying attention and maybe intentionally creating those situations that bring us joy, that bring us inspiration. One of the things for me is the energy of other people as being such an extrovert. Everyone’s like, oh, I’m an introvert. I struggle with video and I’m like, I’m an extrovert and I hate doing video. There are no people on the video. Why do people think this is an extroverted thing? I don’t get my energy from video. 

Kylie Hodges

I totally agree with you there. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. And so finding opportunities for me to be with other people on a podcast or on IG Live with someone else, or even recording content with a team member and then editing them out of it. But that’s been a way that I’ve been able to create this type of content to tap into that energy of, that’s the energy that I show up in my coaching relationships or in group coaching calls. So to tap into that with another human is how I shortcut it. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, I relate to you on so many levels. I am a very people-driven person as well. I get energized being around people. I think many introverts actually feel the opposite, they feel pretty drained. But my takeaway here is cultivating whatever feeling you need to move forward. It is important, and it sounds like you and I are similar. Moving us forward is through relationships and engagement and connection. 

Jaclyn Mellone

So what about that person who really does just they’re talented at writing? They really don’t want to be on video. They’re not like us even where like, I don’t want to be on video. But if someone else is there then you can get me to do it. What about that person? And I keep going back to your willingness to be seen. What should that person be thinking? 

Kylie Hodges

Well, I have two different ways that I want to answer this. The first thing is if you’re really great at something that I previously labeled as passive marketing where people consume whatever content you’re making with their eyes rather than with their ears, that is great. Lean into your strengths here. And what do you need to do to make sure that that content is really getting in front of the right people? It might mean, if you’re a brilliant writer, you could write a blog. But also what about maybe you getting guest featured on publications in front of other audiences? That is getting your words in front of a brand new pool of people who don’t know you yet. And that’s going to multiply your message. That’s what I’m getting at here. The other thing is, you asked me about the willingness. And by the way, I’m so glad I’m talking to you about this topic because you’re so soft and gentle and direct. And I have gotten feedback before. I know this about myself. I can be a little intense. So I think you’re really helping balance me out on this topic here which is wonderful. Thank you so much. 

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s what I’m here for. It’s a good dynamic. I like it. 

Kylie Hodges

It is. You’re like the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down here because I’m the medicine that tastes bad. 

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s fast-acting.

Kylie Hodges

Yes. I don’t know how to sugarcoat what I’m saying but my instinct is like, why did you go into business? Or why did you create this thing meant for sharing if you’re not willing to get out of your own way and share it? And that can be a really hard pill to swallow. I think the first step here is once you realize that that’s happening for you like, do what you need to do to give yourself a hug and not beat yourself up over it. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I know how you’re trying to soften it up.

Kylie Hodges

I’m trying really hard here. I don’t want Jaclyn to lose subscribers, you guys, because she had this mean lady, Kylie, yelling at everybody on the podcast for not marketing enough. But it can really quickly when someone becomes aware of them getting in their own way, it can really quickly turn into a shame spiral that just makes it worse. Which is not what we want to see here. We’re all bound to make mistakes or fail as humans. And so, you are willing to fail in service of yourself and others. That is the most helpful thing you can do. And I just would like to ask everybody listening that if you realize you’re getting in your own way here and maybe not getting visible in front of the right people, what do you need to do to be willing to be seen? What has to change? Is it maybe just journaling out? What are your biggest fears? And then looking at them and asking yourself, what is the truth behind this? And what is just a big, fat, scary opinion? And maybe it’s getting help. Maybe you are really realizing you don’t know how to market your business or whatever, and maybe you need to bring in an expert. But the first step here I would say is, just moving with intention, whatever that means. Do you intend to grow this thing you’ve created? Cool? Great. There are a lot of people in this world who can help you with that. Jaclyn’s one of them. I don’t even know if I answered your question anymore. I started rambling.

Jaclyn Mellone

No, you’re making me think about my own experience. You may look at me and think that I am very visible, or you may look at me and be like, you’re not very visible. I guess depending on how much attention you paid to different platforms. But I will say, I have a decent amount of visibility and I’ve put myself out there in a lot of ways over the years. However, especially in the beginning, I had multiple things that got in my way. And I’ll share two quick ones just as examples in case anyone’s trying to make sense of why they’re struggling. At the beginning of my business, I joke that it was like a step away from the witness protection program. Really because at that time, I don’t think Facebook does this anymore, but at that time, if you joined a Facebook group, it would announce it to every one of your friends like, Jaclyn joined the lady-preneurs growing businesses Facebook Group. It would tell everybody. And I did not want anyone in my actual life to know that I was starting this business when I was just getting started. And so I would join these different Facebook groups free paid or what have you. And I would immediately, I knew where to go in the settings to immediately remove it from my feed so it wouldn’t announce to everyone who I was connected with there. My husband’s family and random people from high school. And so I didn’t want them knowing about it. I felt like I had a safe space on Instagram. People didn’t really know it was me. I was building a whole new audience over there. It took me time to feel comfortable being out in my business with my real life. Obviously, my husband, my parents, close cousins, and stuff knew I was doing something. But it was outside of those people that you have the one-on-one frequent conversations with, I wasn’t ready to be out there with it. And it took me some time, I think of knowing for myself what I wanted or what I was even doing. I don’t really even know exactly what it was but it took me a little time to feel safe doing that. So I liked having a place where I could be promoting my business that was not like a front row to everyone who I’ve ever met in my life.

Kylie Hodges

I get that. I thought of a quick callback to the Wienermobile here that I’m hoping would be helpful for my folks. Do we have time? 

Jaclyn Mellone

I knew that was going to come back up. 

Kylie Hodges

So I was doing some noodling on this topic last night because I knew I was going to be talking to Jaclyn and I wanted to just sort out my thoughts, and it occurred to me. The Wienermobile job came very naturally to me mainly because of my personality. In case you all can’t tell right now, by now I’m an extrovert who has no issue having eyeballs on her and talking to strangers. There are a lot of people in this world who do have issues with that, and I get that. I respect that. I guess I can’t relate. But the Wienermobile job was so interesting because they hired me and 11 other people to be the spokespeople for that year. And we were trained like crazy. But when we hit the road, the Wienermobile was the attraction. It was the thing that got people to stop and pay attention. And they were jazzed and usually so excited and laughing and amused when they saw this 27ft long hotdog car just rolling past their house. But the Wienermobile doesn’t talk. It’s just there. And the appeal is that it exists. You see it and that’s all it delivers which is just being itself. But the Hotdoggers, which was our job title, were the conduits of the joyful experience that the Wienermobile could bring. And what that looked like was, we would park the Wienermobile in a Walmart parking lot. And as people come and go to do their shopping, they’d see us. They would laugh hysterically. And then they would come up to us and talk and share childhood memories of the Wienermobile. I would hand them a Wiener whistle, which was a little tiny plastic toy that’s a token to say you saw it in person. I would ask people to share stories that they had about the Wienermobile and take their photos on their cellphones so they could show their grandkids. I helped double down on the potential experience they had at the Wienermobile. If the Wienermobile was parked there without Hotdoggers, they would just see it, chuckle, and would just take a picture and keep walking. So we, as human brand ambassadors, really emphasizing the brand experience at the Wienermobile. And when I think about that in my business, when I think about just visibility in general, when I tie it into this story it’s, how can you be a Hotdogger for whatever you’re up to? How can you be the conduit of joy for what you have to offer? If the Wienermobile is your coaching program, do you love it so much that you want to shout it from the rooftops and share it with people about what makes it so great? If not, you got to do some reflection on what’s keeping you from feeling that way because that’s where visibility comes in. When you’re so into what you’re talking about and what you’re sharing, you can’t help but want to spread it. I think that’s it.

Jaclyn Mellone

Oh, so good. Okay, and while you’re talking, I had to Google what the Wienermobile looks like because I apparently had a very deprived childhood and never experienced such a sighting. I’m going to talk to my parents about this. I don’t eat that. I did not eat hotdogs as a child, and I still don’t need hotdogs today.

Kylie Hodges

That’s okay. Even if you’re a vegetarian, you can still love the Wienermobile. 

Jaclyn Mellone

But oh, this is way better than I ever could have imagined. And do you know that the Wienermobile now partners with Lyft in some scenarios? Could you imagine shaking? Oh my gosh. I’m also very impressed that you were able to drive this. It looks like an airplane. 

Kylie Hodges

It wasn’t easy, but we had a lot of drivers training. Actually, the man who trained the local police department to drive their cars trained us to drive the Wienermobile. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Okay, they turned at least one of them into an Airbnb. There’s a bed in there. You can stay in. 

Kylie Hodges

But it’s not a Winnebago, Jaclyn. It is strictly a Wienermobile. That’s what got intense job training paid off where I just learned a bunch of puns. That’s what they taught us.

Jaclyn Mellone

Oh yes, absolutely. So that story is definitely memorable and I think will leave an impression. Okay, where do we even go from here? I don’t know. I don’t even know. 

Kylie Hodges

We won’t talk about the Wienermobile, but I think what I want people to take away from this is, you don’t need to be a super special Hotdogger with a crazy outlander story to get people’s attention. I want to make that clear. I have a lot of bizarre examples, and I guess I have had a bizarre life. I drove a hotdog and people hired me to network for them for a minute. 

Jaclyn Mellone

That’s rich. Those are rich experiences. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes. A lot of rich experiences. That’s a good spin. And you don’t need to bang your head against the wall because you don’t think you have any unique thing like that to catch people’s attention. But you don’t need to. It really just starts with getting aligned with what you’re up to, believing in it, and asking yourself, what is the best way to get it out there?

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. I can see too someone picturing you in the Wienermobile. Actually, if you’ve not seen one, you need to Google. We’re building Go-To Gal brands around here. And so building a brand as a Go-To Gal is really personal. It feels personal. And there’s a whole lot of extra layers of stuff because it’s personal. But if you were to have a Wienermobile over your own business and you were going to train someone to be that spokesperson, sometimes if we separate ourselves from it. Taking your whole story and sometimes making it like an out-of-body thing like, okay, what would I want that experience to be? So we’re making it not all about us, and then we can step into being that. But almost like that disassociating, maybe that’s unhealthy. But I think that’s how I do best with things is when I take myself out of it, I can see clearer. Just like a lot of us have the curse of the expert where it’s like, oh, I could do this for my clients but why can’t I use my superpowers on myself? It gets muddy that way. But when we’re able to step outside of that disassociate, whatever you want to call it, maybe that’s a clearer viewpoint. 

Kylie Hodges

Totally. That is such a great way to put it. When I talk about the Wienermobile, I step into being Ketchup Kylie, which is what my name was when I was in the Wienermobile. And also for anybody listening, if you Google Ketchup Kylie, my official Oscar Mayer headshot should come up. And you can see how much I used to tease my hair, which is a real treat. I also had bangs, which I regret. But we could also use the analogy of Beyonce. It’s commonly known that Beyonce is a naturally shy person. But when she’s on stage, she is being Sasha Fierce. She’s not being Beyonce. So again, you’re probably not a rock star who’s going to be on a stage of millions of people and need to call yourself Sasha Fierce. But what is the Sasha Fierce for you that can get you to show up for your art, your business, or whatever you’re creating?

Jaclyn Mellone

Yes. Okay, well now, I should totally plug. I love Todd Herman’s book, Alter Ego. Oh, you haven’t read it? You haven’t heard of it? So this actually ties in with something else I was going to say on that topic. So Todd Herman has/had, I don’t think he sells it anymore. Of course, called 90 Day Year.  I took this course. I ended up being an affiliate for the course. And the first time I was an affiliate for his course, it was a $2,000 course. I had never even sold anything with a comment in it to my audience before. And so it was a big deal. And what I found was I was shocked that I was able to have eight sales the first time. I think it’s December of 2016, and I was shocked that there were eight people in my community who were willing to invest $2,000 in a course. So that was really interesting to me. But I also did a lot of self-reflection because I’m like, I freaking sold this course. And it was so easy for me to show up. And I had actually been unintentionally preceding that the course is coming just because I was a big fan of it and I had taken it. So I was on the podcast talking about how it helped me, talking about, oh, I learned this in 90 Day Year. So when the time came to sell it, people knew who he was. They knew about the course. They knew it helped me. And I freaking showed up and sold it. I remember thinking why was it so easy for me to show up like that for Todd and I had never sold like that for my own programs. And that was like, whoa, okay. What is this? 

Kylie Hodges

What do you think the answer is? 

Jaclyn Mellone

So there was a couple of things. One, it wasn’t me. So I’ve removed all that baggage. So I had that, oh well, I believe in Todd. I believe in this course. I know what got me results. I could just share my own story. But I could share my own story and sell my own programs, right? So it was all of that inner stuff about whatever that was, was removed. I also identified a belief, and I don’t know if other people would have this belief or not but maybe it’s worth sharing in case somebody does relate. And that I had helped my dad start his business. And we really prided ourselves on not really needing to advertise. It was a point of pride that clients came to us. Now, we spent a lot of time building relationships. But it was like, oh, we don’t advertise. They come to us. And we scaled the company very quickly through that. And so I think that was so deeply held. But for me, discounting the fact that my dad had spent 18 years building up his reputation before he went out on his own to start this business. He had that reputation already. But I just think that that was such a point of pride for us in the business that I may be carried that into my own at a certain point of like, well, I shouldn’t have to work those harder. I shouldn’t have to market this hard, which is hysterical because my background is in marketing. All my other jobs were in marketing. But when it came to me selling, especially coaching because it was more of a service than maybe something else that like, oh, of course, you’re going to have a launch. But like other things were now taken for granted. Clients fall on my lap. But as you’re building something new, that’s not the case. And I think I’ve really gotten my head around about that. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, I heard a couple of things there. I heard, and I hope you’re not offended here. 

Jaclyn Mellone

No. 

Kylie Hodges

You had developed a sense of entitlement around not needing to market. I’ve achieved this thing without having to sell or market well, so why do I have to do it for this other thing? Not that I’m too good.

Jaclyn Mellone

No, and I hadn’t gotten to that place yet. Maybe now, if you were to say that, maybe I would agree with you more. But I think it was this belief of you know what it was back then, it was probably the friction of it. It was more of because it was that deeply held belief of, well, if you’re really good, you shouldn’t have to market. And then there was a friction of, but I have to market. And I think for maybe a lot of service providers that have had the referrals, that have had the business come to them, maybe you do relate to this. It’s a thing. It’s a thing. So yes, you can call me out. But it took me on, I had to really undo that belief. But identifying it was there because I was not conscious of this. It was like, of course, I can go sell Todd’s thing. Why is that the case? It took really unraveling that to see some of these underlying things. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes. Well, I would argue that you were such a wonderful affiliate for Todd because you’re not Todd. So it wasn’t about you. And you touched on this earlier. This is why we were talking about alter ego to begin with. Even if you’re a personal brand, you are not your business. And when you can really accept that, it’s a very freeing moment because it gives you permission to fail and know that it has nothing to do with your value as a human being. What a relief. 

Jaclyn Mellone

That is the mic drop. Yes, I think that just underscores everything we’ve been saying. I love how you put that up. I think I was dancing around it with the disassociating and stuff, but if we’re not our business. So really defining that. 

Kylie Hodges

And to bring it back to the Wienermobile. I was at the Wienermobile like I was representing it.  Your business is your Wienermobile and you’re representing it. Honestly be like, giving me a cut right now. 

Jaclyn Mellone

I feel like this episode should be sponsored content or something. 

Kylie Hodges

Seriously, I should get them on the phone. Hey guys, make me an affiliate.

Jaclyn Mellone

So true. So true. Yes, so when we create that separation, which sometimes it’s like, but we’re selling coaching. What can be more personal? You’re like, literally, I am the product. But it’s still important to have that distinction. 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, because you’re just the vessel to provide the skill, the service. Coaching is a talent that you had to hone. There’s a specific way to do it. And when I’m coaching my clients, that’s not me being like curious Kylie asking questions. Coach Kylie is different than Kylie Hodges, even though we all live in the same body. And now, I’m talking about myself in the third person. So it’s getting a little weird over here. 

Jaclyn Mellone

This is where things get really weird. Any final advice for someone who’s experiencing this? Anything to give people that little step into that willingness to be seen? 

Kylie Hodges

Yes, I think I want to answer you with a question. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Very coaching of you. 

Kylie Hodges

I know. I know. No, you’re so right. If you are noticing a disconnect with yourself or your business and you’re not getting visible, what inspired you to start doing this work to begin with? Just go back to that why. What is the thing that drove you from the get-go? Follow it up with, and why does it matter? I think when you can get aligned with the answer to why it matters, that’s going to put some gas in the tank. I can’t help but see momentum from someone who really understands the question, why does this matter for others? 

Jaclyn Mellone

Ooh. Okay. I love that actionable coaching question for us to think on, journal on, and discuss. Oh, all right, Kylie, this has been so good.. Okay, how can we stay in touch with you? 

Kylie Hodges

Well, first of all, I’m on Instagram. DM me and say hi at @kyliehodges. And if you want to do a little more work and dive deeper into getting visible so you can get paid, I made a free workbook. Just go to kyliehodges.com/free. 

Jaclyn Mellone

Awesome. Thank you so, so much.

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